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I don't get it. Who is going to supply Ukraine with gas? Turkey? Russia is THE supplier in that part of the world. Am I missing something? I know Ukraine has some gas resources but they are very limited.
"Historically, Ukraine has relied on natural gas from Russia for a majority of its domestic natural gas consumption. As a result of political tensions with Russia, in recent years, Ukraine has sought to diversify its supplies. From 2014 to 2015, natural gas from Russia decreased from 74% to 37% of total Ukrainian imports, while natural gas imports from Europe increased from 26% to 63%, according to Naftogaz, Ukraine's state oil and gas company.The reversal of natural gas flows on pipelines linking Ukraine to Slovakia, Poland, and Hungary increased the natural gas imports from Europe to Ukraine."
So with other words, Ukrainians now are getting the very same Russian gas via other EU countries, which makes it 10 folds more expensive for Ukrainians, who are "not dependent on Russian gas" now, as DKM is trying to convince us here.
That's what it's all about, these are the ABCs of the "market economy" in Ukraine.
P.S. Whatever Ukraine is producing itself ( if any) is minuscule apparently and in no way can cover its needs.
I don't get it. Who is going to supply Ukraine with gas? Turkey? Russia is THE supplier in that part of the world. Am I missing something? I know Ukraine has some gas resources but they are very limited.
Russia is the supplier of imported gas to Ukraine, that is correct. Technically there is a small amount of US gas imports from Poland but I'm leaving it out for brevity. A couple more European countries still rely on only Russian gas. I could look it up, but its something like Finland, Slovakia and the baltics. All small buyers compared to Ukraine, which was Russia's largest customer for many years.
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Originally Posted by erasure
So with other words, Ukrainians now are getting the very same Russian gas via other EU countries, which makes it 10 folds more expensive for Ukrainians, who are "not dependent on Russian gas" now, as DKM is trying to convince us here.
That's what it's all about, these are the ABCs of the "market economy" in Ukraine.
P.S. Whatever Ukraine is producing itself ( if any) is minuscule apparently and in no way can cover its needs.
Read my post 14412 again. I clearly stated that Ukraine is the destination for 16 of the bcm exported to Europe. You are wrong that they pay more however. The price Ukraine paid this year was the lowest since 2005.
Ukraine produces most of its own gas. If you consider that to be what "miniscule" means in English, I suggest some remediation. This is another hard pill for Russians to swallow because that was certainly not the case before 2014 as I also just said on here yesterday.
Speaking of, it is now 2021, so only one more year of Poland buying Russian gas.
Facts are rough, the propagandists hate me for good reason.
Russia is the supplier of imported gas to Ukraine, that is correct. Technically there is a small amount of US gas imports from Poland but I'm leaving it out for brevity. A couple more European countries still rely on only Russian gas. I could look it up, but its something like Finland, Slovakia and the baltics. All small buyers compared to Ukraine, which was Russia's largest customer for many years.
Read my post 14412 again. I clearly stated that Ukraine is the destination for 16 of the bcm exported to Europe. You are wrong that they pay more however. The price Ukraine paid this year was the lowest since 2005.
Ukraine produces most of its own gas. If you consider that to be what "miniscule" means in English, I suggest some remediation. This is another hard pill for Russians to swallow because that was certainly not the case before 2014 as I also just said on here yesterday.
Facts are rough, the propagandists hate me for good reason.
Exported by WHOM?
Where?
P.S. I'll repeat again - Ukrainian consumers pay 10 times now comparably to what they used to before Americans showed up and promised them rivers of milk and honey.
And THIS is what's playing straight in Putin's hands.
Having trouble following the thread? The TASS article is linked by Scrat on 14408. 56 bcm of Gazprom exports went to Europe this year. Of that, 16 was purchased by Ukraine. This is a sore spot for you clearly. Oligarch connections or just sad about the death of the Donbas?
Having trouble following the thread? The TASS article is linked by Scrat on 14408. 56 bcm of Gazprom exports went to Europe this year. Of that, 16 was purchased by Ukraine. This is a sore spot for you clearly. Oligarch connections or just sad about the death of the Donbas?
No, not the thread, but your little tricks and mindgames, that turn everything upside down.
So I had to look up the numbers myself in English- speaking sources ( since I have no desire to translate for you here tonnes of information that Ukrainian energy experts are talking about on Ukr. T.V.)
So here it goes - "Despite its own production of natural gas Ukraine still has to import about 80% of its natural gas needs.[13]"
Plain and simple, therefore the amount of gas Ukraine produces is minuscule comparably to its needs.
Now keep on talking about your "16 bcm out of 56 bcm," it sure delivers the clearest picture of Ukrainian situation with energy.
P.S. And yes, whatever Russian gas Ukraine is forced to buy now through brokers is much, much more expensive now for Ukrainian consumer.
Fact.
P.S. P.S. Putin publicly reiterated this message by the way to duped Ukrainians, who were notified by their propaganda machine, that now they are supposedly "free and independent" from Russian gas.
He explained to them loud and clear, that they have been ripped off big time, and that they are still receiving the same Russian gas, but through foreign brokers, and that's why it's so much more expensive now.
No, not the thread, but your little tricks and mindgames, that turn everything upside down.
So I had to look up the numbers myself in English- speaking sources ( since I have no desire to translate for you here tonnes of information that Ukrainian energy experts are talking about on Ukr. T.V.)
So here it goes - "Despite its own production of natural gas Ukraine still has to import about 80% of its natural gas needs.[13]"
Plain and simple, therefore the amount of gas Ukraine produces is minuscule comparably to its needs.
Soviet education, no wonder the empire collapsed on itself...You are deliberately trying to mix things up or really don't get it? You are literally quoting import statistics from 1999. Just because I don't always bother to respond to all your false claims it is not because you are right. I'll give you one more chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
Now keep on talking about your "16 bcm out of 56 bcm," it sure delivers the clearest picture of Ukrainian situation with energy.
P.S. And yes, whatever Russian gas Ukraine is forced to buy now through brokers is much, much more expensive now for Ukrainian consumer.
Fact.
You are not giving facts. Those are opinions. These are facts:
2018 Ukraine gas production: 21.3 bcm
2018 Ukraine gas consumption: 32.3 bcm
Difference = 10.6. Those are imports. 10.6/32.3 = 33%. When I said Ukraine produces 2/3rds of its gas, its actually true.
Price paid by Ukraine for Russian gas during the last 2 years of Yanukovich regime: $400 per tcm
Price paid by Ukraine in the most recent year: $140 per tcm.
140 is less than 400. This is a fact, math is universal.
Soviet education, no wonder the empire collapsed on itself...You are deliberately trying to mix things up or really don't get it? You are literally quoting import statistics from 1999. Just because I don't always bother to respond to all your false claims it is not because you are right. I'll give you one more chance.
It's the other way around DKM - because of the Soviet system of education *the empire* was successful for so long - much longer than it should have.
But I was not part of that education - not when it comes to figures, stats and so on.
No interest whatsoever, and I hate looking stats up on the internet, hate spending time on that - you already know it.
I DO know however what I hear/read on Ukrainian sites, and all your little mindgames, your desire to prove the opposite of what's going on in Ukraine doesn't do any good, ( whether you like to respond to me "always" or not.)
The reason Ukraine is paying less for gas to Russia today is not because Ukrainian consumer is getting a "better deal" but because the gas price is going down across the world - it's a general trend for now. ( Whether Russia is suffering from it as you hope or not - that's a different question. I am talking specifically about the situation in Ukraine now.
And no matter how much you are trying to convince everyone here that Ukraine "produces third of its needs" - the needs of Ukraine shrunk a great deal, since with the help of American interests, the livelihood of Ukrainians was destroyed - industrial sector first of all, that provided them with jobs and opportunities. ( What came in place instead of it - I already explained.)
Quote:
You are not giving facts. Those are opinions. These are facts:
I am giving the *opinions* of Ukrainians - the average people out on the streets.
And if you quit your
2018 Ukraine gas production: 21.3 bcm
2018 Ukraine gas consumption: 32.3 bcm
Difference = 10.6. Those are imports. 10.6/32.3 = 33%. When I said Ukraine produces 2/3rds of its gas, its actually true.
Price paid by Ukraine for Russian gas during the last 2 years of Yanukovich regime: $400 per tcm
Price paid by Ukraine in the most recent year: $140 per tcm.
140 is less than 400. This is a fact, math is universal.
I am giving the opinions of Ukrainians - the average people out there.
Go and try to convince them with your mental gymnastics how much better off they are now, "producing 2/3rds of their own gas," and paying "$140 per tcm."
Just don't forget to bring along the gun for self-defense.
You might need it.
They might not have patience to explain to you in details, how much they have to pay now for the "delivery" of that gas per household ( charged separately by now,) what happened to their income and so on.
From what I understand Ukraine was largely dependent on Russian gas in the past. 2 things have changed.
1. Destruction of the Ukrainian industrial economy has reduced demand by a large margin. 2. Alternatives in supply, countries other than Russia.
Sure, with the country in 3rd world mode, little heavy industry functioning Ukraine and domestic use of gas mainly in cities Ukraine producing 2/3rds of its own gas is certainly feasible.
It sure doesn't mean it's a good thing. Germany is Europes industrial powerhouse and it wants as much gas as it can get. Just compare.
From what I understand Ukraine was largely dependent on Russian gas in the past. 2 things have changed.
1. Destruction of the Ukrainian industrial economy has reduced demand by a large margin.
Yes.
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2. Alternatives in supply, countries other than Russia.
They get the same Russian gas, but through the "reverse" process.
I.e. it goes first to Poland/Slovakia(?), and then they send it to Ukraine.
I am not aware of any other sources for Ukrainian gas supply.
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Sure, with the country in 3rd world mode, little heavy industry functioning Ukraine and domestic use of gas mainly in cities Ukraine producing 2/3rds of its own gas is certainly feasible.
I have forgotten how much their industry is destroyed by now, so they need far less to produce now, ( it's minuscule comparably to their previous needs.) But I still not 2/3rds - I don't believe so.
Have to look it up on line I guess, but I hate it.
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It sure doesn't mean it's a good thing. Germany is Europes industrial powerhouse and it wants as much gas as it can get. Just compare.
European counties that actually still have their industries ( and natural gas in their homes in rural areas including) - yes, they need gas.
As much as.
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