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Old 01-17-2016, 10:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
Ok . African Americans are about as African culturally as European Americans are culturally European, .


You are kidding, right? There is very little in AA culture which is obviously African. The culture of white Americans is basically an adaptation of European cultures, enriched to varying degrees by the native Americans and the African people who they encountered in the formation of this country.


Whereas white Americans were reasonably free to practice their culture, as they saw fit, enslaved Africans weren't, so had to "hide" much of their culture, within one that developed as a sub set of American culture.


African Americans are the LEAST African of all of the major groups of Afro descendants in the Americas. The very brutality of the racism in this country explains a good part of this.


It is the hardship of rejection by white Americans, MOST ARRIVING AFTER the ancestors of most back Americans, that colors the identity formation of African Americans.


FACT. Given a choice most African Americans will sooner identify with a black immigrant from the Anglophone Caribbean, and not with a white American. And this is notwithstanding the much publicized tensions which exist between these groups. NOT because of any Pan African belief either. More from the notion that BOTH groups have endured slavery and "colonialism" and are pretty much in the same boat in the USA.

Last edited by caribny; 01-17-2016 at 11:14 PM..
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AFP View Post
I have interacted with many African Americans as well from various educational and social backgrounds over my lifetime don't flatter yourself you aren't the first black person I've come across.

.


And this makes you an expert on blacks. Listen what blacks will reveal to you as a non black person doesn't necessarily reveal what they think, and how they view life.


Unless you have friends who are honest enough with you to trigger arguments about race, then you don't know blacks. You just know what THEY want YOU to know about them.


The fact remains that while African Americans are primarily an American group, the cruelty with which they are treated leads many to have a very ambivalent view of this nation.

Last edited by caribny; 01-17-2016 at 11:11 PM..
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
He has a point black fathers are less involved with their kids than white fathers are in the USA that isn't news black fathers are far more likely not to live in the same household and thus spend less time with their kids on average.

The Truth About Race and Father Involvement | RealClearPolicy


And as we see more poor whites facing economic dislocation much of the same phenomenon is beginning to occur.


In fact only 50% of all US kids live with both of their natural born parents. We can debate as to whether a child of a hostile divorce is better off than one who never lived with his father.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Afrocentrism is a magnet and a breeding ground for the dregs and the losers of society.

They'll never amount to anything and nothing good will ever come from enabling them.

With them as your friends you'll never need external enemies.

Chris Rock Blacks V.S N-words

Funny how the trolls don't understand the point.


It will be like if a southern white comic spoke out about "white trailer park trash" vs, decent Southern white folk.


NOTHING to do with Afro centric anything. Roc speaks often on the hypocrisy of white racism.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:23 PM
AFP AFP started this thread
 
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Originally Posted by caribny View Post
You are kidding, right? There is very little in AA culture which is obviously African. The culture of white Americans is basically an adaptation of European cultures, enriched to varying degrees by the native Americans and the African people who they encountered in the formation of this country.


Whereas white Americans were reasonably free to practice their culture, as they saw fit, enslaved Africans weren't, so had to "hide" much of their culture, within one that developed as a sub set of American culture.


African Americans are the LEAST African of all of the major groups of Afro descendants in the Americas. The very brutality of the racism in this country explains a good part of this.


It is the hardship of rejection by white Americans, MOST ARRIVING AFTER the ancestors of most back Americans, that colors the identity formation of African Americans.


FACT. Given a choice most African Americans will sooner identify with a black immigrant from the Anglophone Caribbean, and not with a white American. And this is notwithstanding the much publicized tensions which exist between these groups. NOT because of any Pan African belief either. More from the notion that BOTH groups have endured slavery and "colonialism" and are pretty much in the same boat in the USA.
Which is what I was stating obviously I was exaggerating. Americans are far from being culturally European(American culture has diverged into something unique) and A A's are certainly far less African culturally than Americans of European ancestry are European culturally.

Last edited by AFP; 01-17-2016 at 11:38 PM..
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:32 PM
AFP AFP started this thread
 
6,898 posts, read 4,245,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
And this makes you an expert on blacks. Listen what blacks will reveal to you as a non black person doesn't necessarily reveal what they think, and how they view life.


Unless you have friends who are honest enough with you to trigger arguments about race, then you don't know blacks. You just know what THEY want YOU to know about them.


The fact remains that while African Americans are primarily an American group, the cruelty with which they are treated leads many to have a very ambivalent view of this nation.

I've had many honest discussions about race with black people that I have come to know going back as far as the Rodney King beating the L.A. riots, the O. J. Simpson trial etc. not a new topic for me. But no I wouldn't consider myself an expert.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:32 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,939,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
Which is what I was stating obviously I was exaggerating.


You were debating the "Americanness" of black Americans, and expressing no understanding about the ambivalence that the VAST MAJORITY of them have towards this country.


To many it remains one which is ambivalent (at best) to them, while more openly embracing non black immigrants.


So while you are correct to say that African American culture is a subset of American culture (I will add it has contributed much to US culture) you are WRONG when you claim that this country views black Americans as mere Americans. It does if they are Oprah or Chris Roc. Not some unknown black man trying to get home from a hard days work.


In fact it views blacks as blacks, conceding no more to those whose ancestry in this country is almost 400 years than it does to some one deplaning tonight from Kingston, Jamaica. We are BOTH seen as mere "blacks" in this country.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:37 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,939,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
I've had many honest discussions about race with black people that I have come to know going back as far as the Rodney King beating the L.A. riots, the O. J. Simpson trial etc. not a new topic for me. But no I wouldn't consider myself an expert.


Once you are aware of this then fine. Just don't dismiss some one whose views might vary from those blacks who you have met. In fact many might think like these folks, when your back is turned.


This is a white male dominated nation, and middle class blacks have to do a careful dance with whites to avoid being the "angry black male/female" and then getting punished. We have moved beyond the "yessuh massuh" days, but full honesty we have yet to reach.


In fact whites also play a game with blacks, pretending to be less racist than they actually are. And I know this because I hear what several light skinned blacks have reported when interacting with whites do don't know that they are "black", so are less guarded in what they say.
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Old 01-19-2016, 06:12 PM
 
5,196 posts, read 4,680,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
I disagree some individuals are in pain and looking for answers and certainly not bad people. Engaging in conversation can be a positive thing and a learning experience for individuals with diamtetrically opposed views.
You shouldn't forget, the goal of the slave is to pull everyone down with them, so the social justice warrior should keep in mind that the mooches and leaches of society will reward the kind redistributor by slitting their throat.

"Jesse Jackson is traveling the country with a tough anti-crime message that he is delivering to inner-city youngsters. In Chicago he said, "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery -- then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."

NYTimes: In America; A Sea Change On Crime
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Old 01-19-2016, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 7,723,083 times
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Originally Posted by MOORISH-AMERICAN View Post
By the time slavery had started in the 1400s, the Arabs had become significantly weakened as a military force by the time of the Western Crusades (1095-1250s) and the Eastern Crusades, namely the Christian-backed Mongol invasion that culminated in the sacking of Baghdad in 1258. Their military response to these successive invasions can best be described as pathetic. The Arabs were 'saved' only by the intervention of non-Arab Muslims e.g. Sala udin Ayubi - from Kurdistan, the Mamelukes (Muslim kinsmen to the non-Muslim Mongols and Tartars) and then the Ottomans who took over the Caliphate. The Arabs were in no position to enslave other people after suffering such bruising attacks from Central Asia.
Nonsense. The Mongol invaders converted to Islam themselves not long after sacking Baghdad, and the taking of black African slaves resumed and accelerated (and continues).
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