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Adoswarrior applies a "selective definition of blackness" to adapt the reality to his will.
According to him Brazilian pardos are not black because they are mixed. but then goes to put all African american into the black category (because they most likely will self identify as such)
but how does he knows that all pardos do not consider themself black?
or all mulatoes?
Being afrondecendant does not means you identify as black, means that you know that you are at least part African. So latin american has 3 times more afro descendants than the US. They just dont go around calling themselves African, because they are not African, they have some African ancestry.
The fact that AA (of all level of mixture) considered themselves black, is irrelevant.
just in Brasil the pardo population is somewhere between 60-80 million.
1. How about you address my post since you called me a "retard."
2. I was only going by the officially Brazilian census which posts the Black population there around 15 million. So it seems only 15 million Brazilians identify as Black. Unless you can show us a new census.
3. You can't compare Aframs to Afro-Brazilians because here in the USA the mulatto population is smaller than the non-mulatto Black population. Not only that "Pardo" in Brazil is a very "broad" label. Pardos can be anything from mulattos, mestizos(whatever Brazil's name is for it), mixed with Asian, etc. Either way recent genetic studies show that the average Afram African admixture is around 80%.
4. Now you are flip flopping on what the discussion is about. Pan-Africanism in the American/Diaspora sense is about Blackness and not just being of Afro descent.
5. More importantly don't you non-Black Latinos get angry/upset when Aframs "force" Brazilians to be "Black." lol.
6. As for that "60-80 million" number now tell us how many are mulatto vs mestizo or something else.
Our population growth isn't that fast and I'll say 41 mill conservatively. Those stats includes the Black umbrella not Aframs alone. So another 4 mill or so includes the Africans & Afro Carribeans/Hispanics/Canadians/Europeans too.
41 million is still a bit above entire number of Afro-Latinos. Or a bit below.
What’s w real Afro Brazilian and who determines that?
There to tell how many Black People in whatever country support Pan Africanist without extensive polling. Who really cares?
Lastly people in any nation are individuals, and you don’t have all people from a nation who feel the same way. There are African Americans who are not pan Africanists, and who would reject the label African. There are Afro Latino pan Africanists. One’s politics are a personal choice. Most of the people here speaking for large groups of people have never even visited these places?
Have you visited Brazil to know what the African diaspora population is like?
Having an interest in your ethnic identity does not mean you should disparage the ethnic identities of others. You definitely have a lot of racists on here, but 5 internet trolls don’t represent all Latin Americans or all Afro Latinos.
You kinda misunderstood my point. That other poster was saying Pan-Africanism was a Afram/Caribbean thing and not really a Afro-Latino thing who are a bigger population. All I did was show him that the Black Latino population was not that much bigger than the AA one.
I'm not disparaging any ethnic groups. No I never been to Brazil but I have been to South America. I just dislike it when non-Black Latinos act like they have an authority on how Black Latinos view themselves and behave. I already stuff like this has been happening in Brazil in recent years.
1. How about you address my post since you called me a "retard."
2. I was only going by the officially Brazilian census which posts the Black population there around 15 million. So it seems only 15 million Brazilians identify as Black. Unless you can show us a new census.
3. You can't compare Aframs to Afro-Brazilians because here in the USA the mulatto population is smaller than the non-mulatto Black population. Not only that "Pardo" in Brazil is a very "broad" label. Pardos can be anything from mulattos, mestizos(whatever Brazil's name is for it), mixed with Asian, etc. Either way recent genetic studies show that the average Afram African admixture is around 80%.
4. Now you are flip flopping on what the discussion is about. Pan-Africanism in the American/Diaspora sense is about Blackness and not just being of Afro descent.
5. More importantly don't you non-Black Latinos get angry/upset when Aframs "force" Brazilians to be "Black." lol.
6. As for that "60-80 million" number now tell us how many are mulatto vs mestizo or something else.
the mulatto population in the US is very big, actually a large number of African Americans are mulattoes, they just identify as black but A LARGE PERCENTAGE of them are mixed.
thats the situation, AA are afro decendants, dark mulatos, who identify as black. but afro decendants, just as any pardo- brazilian, dominican, cuban ect.
identifying as black is their CHOICE. but they do not stop being afro descendants by not choosing being labeled as black.
people that identify as black in latam is about 40 million. but afro-descendants are about 3 times that number. no a small number.
the mulatto population in the US is very big, actually a large number of African Americans are mulattoes, they just identify as black but A LARGE PERCENTAGE of them are mixed.
thats the situation, AA are afro decendants, dark mulatos, who identify as black. but afro decendants, just as any pardo- brazilian, dominican, cuban ect.
identifying as black is their CHOICE. but they do not stop being afro descendants by not choosing being labeled as black.
people that identify as black in latam is about 40 million. but afro-descendants are about 3 times that number. no a small number.
PS: and how do you know am not black?
True, but each group has their own reasons/history for the way they identify themselves.
nothing wrong with any of them.
America, was not a real democracy until african amaricans made it one.
all those ideals of liberty and all the self-serving bs that america was funded on was all a farce.
African-americans made America the democracy that it is today and they have paid a heavy price for it. I understand that they dont want to be called mixed (even if they are) because that DNA was forced upon them by rape and force. Latam has a different history and identities are more fluid. It is just a question of not being a prick a understanding that history is different depending on the place.
the mulatto population in the US is very big, actually a large number of African Americans are mulattoes, they just identify as black but A LARGE PERCENTAGE of them are mixed.
You don't know what your talking about. Which also shows you know little about Aframs. The mulatto population at best is 3 milllion out of the 45/41 million African-American population. And what do you mean a large percentage of AAs are mixed? Like I said recent studies have the average AA scoring 80% African admixture. That's not "mixed."
Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22
thats the situation, AA are afro decendants, dark mulatos, who identify as black. but afro decendants, just as any pardo- brazilian, dominican, cuban ect.
identifying as black is their CHOICE. but they do not stop being afro descendants by not choosing being labeled as black.
Genetic studies show Aframs to be less admixed then those groups...
Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22
people that identify as black in latam is about 40 million. but afro-descendants are about 3 times that number. no a small number.
The only latin territories/countries(excluding Haiti) with significant Afro descendants are Brazil, Colombia, Dominican Rep, Panama, Cuba and PR. That's basically it. The Afro ancestry is not that widespread as people make it out to be in Latin America outside a few countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22
PS: and how do you know am not black?
Aren't you Dominican especially from that Haiti thread?
You don't know what your talking about. Which also shows you know little about Aframs. The mulatto population at best is 3 milllion out of the 45/41 million African-American population. And what do you mean a large percentage of AAs are mixed? Like I said recent studies have the average AA scoring 80% African admixture. That's not "mixed."
Genetic studies show Aframs to be less admixed then those groups...
The only latin territories/countries(excluding Haiti) with significant Afro descendants are Brazil, Colombia, Dominican Rep, Panama, Cuba and PR. That's basically it. The Afro ancestry is not that widespread as people make it out to be in Latin America outside a few countries.
Aren't you Dominican especially from that Haiti thread?
A person who is 20% white has about the genetic equivalent of a white grandparent. That´s mixed, and it even affects one´s healthcare. An African American woman died of a genetically caused cancer common among Jews because she had that further back in her family tree (via slavery, such as my family).
Of course an average means some people will have less than 20% European and some will have more. Vanessa Williams is 45% European and there are a lot of AAs who look like her.
Re: In places like Mexico the average Mexican is not predominately of African ancestry, but many do have small amounts of African DNA. In fact perhaps the majority do. They maybe mostly of white and Native descent, but there´s some African there.
Adoswarrior applies a "selective definition of blackness" to adapt the reality to his will.
According to him Brazilian pardos are not black because they are mixed. but then goes to put all African american into the black category (because they most likely will self identify as such)
but how does he knows that all pardos do not consider themself black?
or all mulatoes?
Being afrondecendant does not means you identify as black, means that you know that you are at least part African. So latin american has 3 times more afro descendants than the US. They just dont go around calling themselves African, because they are not African, they have some African ancestry.
The fact that AA (of all level of mixture) considered themselves black, is irrelevant.
just in Brasil the pardo population is somewhere between 60-80 million.
That´s perfectly fine. What people call themselves is their business, PROVIDED they don´t try to use pride in their identity to disparage others. My comments were also aimed at a couple of Dominicans who is declaring themselves mixed, sought to disparage other Black populations (Haitians and African Americans). Which is ridiculous because those Black populations are mixed as well. Of course there´s variation on the degree of the mixture, but that´s not just between countries, it´s between individuals. Samuel Jackson´s white ancestry happened during slavery, Halle Berry and Barack Obama have white mothers.
But yes I agree with you, Latin America has a very large population of people of African descent, many of whom may acknowledge being part African but don´t call themselves Black.
Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, Puerto Rican representative of New York likely has some African ancestry. She´s not predominately African, but she´s not a 100 percent white and she´s not just white and native either. You can tell by looking at her. There are people who look like her who will refer to themselves as AfroLatino, which is a separate context from being Black. In that context AfroLatino is a Latino with some African heritage (not necessarily predominately).
True, but each group has their own reasons/history for the way they identify themselves.
nothing wrong with any of them.
America, was not a real democracy until african amaricans made it one.
all those ideals of liberty and all the self-serving bs that america was funded on was all a farce.
African-americans made America the democracy that it is today and they have paid a heavy price for it. I understand that they dont want to be called mixed (even if they are) because that DNA was forced upon them by rape and force. Latam has a different history and identities are more fluid. It is just a question of not being a prick a understanding that history is different depending on the place.
Don´t generalize. You have AAs like Halle Berry who have white parents. She has said she often goes along with just being Black because she didn´t feel like getting into a discussion about her family or having an arguement with every person she meets. She was raised by her white mother, like Obama was raised by his white family.
To which I completely understand.
Now privately of course African Americans know we have ancestors of other races. But up until the 60s and 70s, people of color were legally denied entrance to top universities and professional jobs. Look at people like Rosa Parks and Adam Clayton Powell junior. These civil rights leaders were nearly white, but because the 100 percent whites shut them out of economic and social opportunities they chose to fight for civil rights for ALL and for equality and access.
Rosa Parks, despite being close to white still had to get to the back of the bus with the other Blacks.
So it´s not really a matter of AAs not wanting to call ourselves mixed, it´s a matter of how the predominately white US defines people and even if you are mixed there´s a lot of trouble there unless you come out looking entirely white.
Places like the Dominican Republic and Colombia are predominately non white, so if people want to call themselves mixed in the context of THOSE societies they can. They make up the majority.
the mulatto population in the US is very big, actually a large number of African Americans are mulattoes, they just identify as black but A LARGE PERCENTAGE of them are mixed.
thats the situation, AA are afro decendants, dark mulatos, who identify as black. but afro decendants, just as any pardo- brazilian, dominican, cuban ect.
identifying as black is their CHOICE. but they do not stop being afro descendants by not choosing being labeled as black.
people that identify as black in latam is about 40 million. but afro-descendants are about 3 times that number. no a small number.
PS: and how do you know am not black?
Up until 1910, the US government classified people who looked mixed to them as mulatto. One can find this on the census records. By 1920 the US decided to do away with mulatto as a separate category. So there´s also the decision of the government.
In English mulatto is an archaic term that NO ONE would call themselves, even if they identified as mixed. Obviously it´s associated with the slavery era in which a slaveowner would take one of his slaves as a concubine and have a so called "mulatto" child.
For that reason alone I cannot imagine ever calling myself that.
And yes, this happened throughout the Caribbean and Latin America.
Even in the Spanish speaking world today, "mulatto" I do not believe is commonly used. People just don´t commonly call themselves "mulattos". It´s an obsolete term, like calling someone "coloured" or calling someone "Negro" in the context of the United States.
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