Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Good, sounds like things are being handled correctly. Ze is earning his top spot in the polls again.
I see Lazrov is mad about his spat with the EU's Borrell. Threatening to sever relations with the bloc over sanctions. Maybe he needs a time out for his hysteria? But what does this have to do with Ukraine anyway... oh Borrell reminded the world that sanctions will not go away until "the fulfillment of the Minsk agreements, which is a strong condition in the relationship between the European Union and Russia... I am not going to go into the details, but as far as the Minsk agreements are not being fulfilled, the normalization of the relations between the European Union and Russia will not happen,"
So looks like Russia thinks the EU will cave to them over Ukraine with the threat of "severed" relations. Yeah right Lavrov, good try but you failed.
It is not necessary to shift from a sick head to a healthy one.. Russia is not a party to the conflict. It is Ukraine that refuses to comply with the Minsk agreements and continues to kill the civilian population of Donbass. With the full connivance of the "guarantors" in the person of France and Germany and the blind OSCE.
It is not necessary to shift from a sick head to a healthy one.. Russia is not a party to the conflict. It is Ukraine that refuses to comply with the Minsk agreements and continues to kill the civilian population of Donbass. With the full connivance of the "guarantors" in the person of France and Germany and the blind OSCE.
Russia is the other nation that signed the Minsk agreement. Its Russia and Ukraine. You really think the EU sanctions Russia for not fulfilling its commitments for no reason at all don't you. Naturally, the Russian state wants you to believe this. It is remarkable they are able to push such obvious lies to their people in this day and age.
Here are the specific protocols the EU is saying Russia is not fulfilling:
4. To ensure the permanent monitoring of the Ukrainian-Russian border and verification by the OSCE with the creation of security zones in the border regions of Ukraine and the Russian Federation.
5. Immediate release of all hostages and illegally detained persons.
8. To take measures to improve the humanitarian situation in Donbass.
9.To ensure early local elections in accordance with the Ukrainian law "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts".
10. To withdraw illegal armed groups and military equipment as well as fighters and mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine.
#s 4 and 10 being the most serious problems with Russia's refusal to implement. Russia absolutely refuses to allow any international monitoring of its border with Ukraine. They also completely reject pulling their "volunteer" army out of the Donbas, and to stop resupplying them with weapons and ammo. This is what stands between Russia and the EU, despite what your wild propaganda claims.
Russia is the other nation that signed the Minsk agreement. Its Russia and Ukraine. You really think the EU sanctions Russia for not fulfilling its commitments for no reason at all don't you. Naturally, the Russian state wants you to believe this. It is remarkable they are able to push such obvious lies to their people in this day and age.
Here are the specific protocols the EU is saying Russia is not fulfilling:
4. To ensure the permanent monitoring of the Ukrainian-Russian border and verification by the OSCE with the creation of security zones in the border regions of Ukraine and the Russian Federation.
5. Immediate release of all hostages and illegally detained persons.
8. To take measures to improve the humanitarian situation in Donbass.
9.To ensure early local elections in accordance with the Ukrainian law "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts".
10. To withdraw illegal armed groups and military equipment as well as fighters and mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine.
#s 4 and 10 being the most serious problems with Russia's refusal to implement. Russia absolutely refuses to allow any international monitoring of its border with Ukraine. They also completely reject pulling their "volunteer" army out of the Donbas, and to stop resupplying them with weapons and ammo. This is what stands between Russia and the EU, despite what your wild propaganda claims.
Thank you for explanations dearest DKM, but no, that's the Nazi version of the Minsk agreement, that "Russia refuses to fulfill."
In the REAL world, the #4 of the agreement states the following;
"On the first day after the pullout a dialogue is to start on modalities of conducting local elections in accordance with the Ukrainian legislation and the Law of Ukraine "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts," and also about the future of these districts based on the above-mentioned law.Without delays, but no later than 30 days from the date of signing of this document, a resolution has to be approved by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, indicating the territory which falls under the special regime in accordance with the law "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts," based in the line set up by the Minsk Memorandum as of 19 September 2014."
And #9 is
"Restore control of the state border to the Ukrainian government in the whole conflict zone, which has to start on the first day after the local election and end after the full political regulation (local elections in particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts based on the law of Ukraine and Constitutional reform) by the end of 2015, on the condition of fulfillment of Point 11 – in consultations and in agreement with representatives of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts within the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group."
See why Kiev refuses to fulfill the Minsk agreement?
Kiev, not Moscow.
Kiev wants now to get in charge of Ukrainian border with Russia (which is #9 in protocol's order) BEFORE the # 4of the protocol order, which stands for allowing Donbass to have the local elections and getting the autonomous status, for which Ukraine has to adjust its Constitution.
But that's the only way how Donbass people can assure their safety, because we all understand that IF without the implemented laws assuring the autonomy of Donbass ( in Constitution including,) Kiev will take over the border, the dear Nazi will start their killing spree in the region, and there will be no one to stop them there.
So how Kiev's team is trying to re-negotiate now with all its puny might the transfer of the border BEFORE it assures safety of Donbass people, is unimportant - be that with the help of "OSCE observers," "creation of security zones," or bringing Americans and Britons to "negotiation table." Anything short of standing on their heads, in order to move the Nazi battalions in the region BEFORE it gets protection under the international laws.
Which Russia obviously is not allowing to happen.
And that's why Minsk agreements are falling through.
Putin explained to this clown Zelensky who is trying to cosy up to the "big guys," that switching the order of these two points - #4 and #9 of Minsk protocol is non-negotiable.
The rest is less important.
Here is more for you to read, in order to understand it better - how it works in the REAL world, not imaginary Ukrainian Nazi world.
"In the meantime, Kyiv agreed to Russia's political demands and the 2015 Steinmeier formula, named after Germany's then-foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier. Steinmeier's formula suggests incremental steps whereby Donetsk and Luhansk regions could gradually acquire special status. A key issue in this context remains how to hold local elections in these separatist-controlled regions. Kyiv's agreement to this step, meanwhile, sparked street protests across the country, ( read our Nazi friends were unhappy about it ) with some decrying the move as a capitulation."
"A new agreement, a kind of Minsk-3 deal, does not look likely. Russia is not interested in Kyiv's new demands, such as the desire to regain control over its 400-kilometer eastern border with Russia. ( I already explained why.)
Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has said only then would he agree to local elections in the separatist-controlled regions, which would most likely be held in autumn 2020."
Kiev wants now to get in charge of Ukrainian border with Russia (which is #9 in protocol's order) BEFORE the # 4 of the protocol order, which stands for allowing Donbass to have the local elections and getting the autonomous status, for which Ukraine has to adjust its Constitution.
But that's the only way how Donbass people can assure their safety, because we all understand that IF without the implemented laws assuring the autonomy of Donbass ( in Constitution including,) Kiev will take over the border, the dear Nazi will start their killing spree in the region, and there will be no one to stop them there.
This is the key. History does at times repeat itself. I've studied what happened in Eastern Europe in WWII and after it. I have no respect for the Crimean Tatars, what those people did in the area of the Kalmius river and to the east appalled the German Wehrmacht and that's saying a lot considering the attitudes at the time. I have no respect for many Ukrainians who BY CHOICE became Hiwis and became the bloody hands of the Germans. Most of these auxiliary personnel were in fact from Western Ukraine and they were used as policemen in the rear.
It's stunning what will happen when people think they have won and will never be held accountable for their acts.
Ukraine just needs to accept the fact that they will not rule the Donbas. They best just take their wounded and leave, it's not worth it.
Ignoring the obvious here, on purpose as always. They can't hold elections in the occupied territories while the Russian military and their auxiliary militia control everything. Those aren't going to be "free" elections anymore than their fake referendums of the past were. So to keep from ending the Russian occupation, they only need to prevent the elections and blame "Kiev" for not allowing them to run a rigged election.
Ukraine already offered to have a 3rd party control the border and the occupied part of the Donbas (OSCE or UN) to remove the burden raised on doing #4 before #9. All ignored by the Russian military who don't want to end the conflict anyway as its their only lever left to influence Ukraine.
Most Ukrainians west of Donetsk would love to lose the Donbas, but its seen as "giving in" by too many people. Plus what about the millions of people in Ukraine waiting to go back home there... not fair to them and many people from eastern Ukraine who fought to keep the invasion from proceeding would feel betrayed.
So we stay in stalemate until either:
1) Russia's leadership decides its better to live sanction free and allow the UN to run the Donbas until Minsk is fulfilled or
2) Ukraine's military decisively invades and retakes most of the donbas and lets Russia keep the last 15 km within Russian artillery range.
The Donbas competes with Transnistria as the poorest place in Europe with comparable outlook.
The best thing that could happen is the Russians on the Dnieper moving west and the Nazi murderers all jammed up against the Polish border like rats up against a wall, begging to be let in.
Ignoring the obvious here, on purpose as always. They can't hold elections in the occupied territories while the Russian military and their auxiliary militia control everything. Those aren't going to be "free" elections anymore than their fake referendums of the past were. So to keep from ending the Russian occupation, they only need to prevent the elections and blame "Kiev" for not allowing them to run a rigged election.
DKMchik dear, read all the points of the Minsk memorandum point after point. I already left the link.
That's what Poroshenko initially signed, and that's what Ukraine should adhere to, as much as Zelensky & Nazi Co are inconvenienced by it, and as much as they are trying to wiggle out of it.
Quote:
Ukraine already offered to have a 3rd party control the border and the occupied part of the Donbas (OSCE or UN) to remove the burden raised on doing #4 before #9. All ignored by the Russian military who don't want to end the conflict anyway as its their only lever left to influence Ukraine.
Who cares what Ukraine "offered"?
The offer was not accepted.
Putin clearly said no to switching #4 and #9.
What part of *non-negotiable* Nazi and Co don't understand?
Quote:
Most Ukrainians west of Donetsk would love to lose the Donbas, but its seen as "giving in" by too many people. Plus what about the millions of people in Ukraine waiting to go back home there... not fair to them and many people from eastern Ukraine who fought to keep the invasion from proceeding would feel betrayed.
Mhm. We know who those "people" are.
Because normal Ukrainians agree to the Donbass autonomy; most of all they want PEACE that Zelensky promised ( as one of the major goals of his presidency) and failed to deliver.
Quote:
So we stay in stalemate until either:
1) Russia's leadership decides its better to live sanction free and allow the UN to run the Donbas until Minsk is fulfilled or
2) Ukraine's military decisively invades and retakes most of the donbas and lets Russia keep the last 15 km within Russian artillery range.
The Donbas competes with Transnistria as the poorest place in Europe with comparable outlook.
The detailed Minsk plan has been designed by him, point by point, and therefore is known as "Steinmeier Formula" ( that Kiev has to adhere to now.)
I'd say ask Germans around here for his address and write to him all your grievances.
On another hand, we know that your Nazi friends have a nasty habit of placing people's ( and their families) whereabouts on the "Myrotvorets" site, and then to call for safari on the "enemies of the Ukrainian state."
Therefore advise your whiny Nazi friends to write straight to the Bundestag instead.
Meanwhile back in reality Ukraine's Interpipe (SE Ukraine) recently shipped its first pipes to Qatar's main oil and gas company after upgrading their factory in Nikopol to the required standards. Qatar is expanding gas production to supply what is going to be the world's largest LNG terminal. The company also makes railway wheels and increased sales to Europe even during the pandemic last year.
A quick video on Interpipe and how they recently met the European low carbon standards. Russian claims its fake will start around 25 seconds in. This can't be SE Ukraine, it is ruined by losing access to the mighty Russian market! And those EU rules will make it impossible for Ukrainian factories to produce anything!
Turns out Ukraine's electricity consumption increased more sharply than expected in January due to an increase in machine building, chemical plants and building materials factories increasing power use by 15 to 20%.
Meanwhile back in reality Ukraine's Interpipe (SE Ukraine) recently shipped its first pipes to Qatar's main oil and gas company after upgrading their factory in Nikopol to the required standards. Qatar is expanding gas production to supply what is going to be the world's largest LNG terminal. The company also makes railway wheels and increased sales to Europe even during the pandemic last year.
A quick video on Interpipe and how they recently met the European low carbon standards. Russian claims its fake will start around 25 seconds in. This can't be SE Ukraine, it is ruined by losing access to the mighty Russian market! And those EU rules will make it impossible for Ukrainian factories to produce anything!
Turns out Ukraine's electricity consumption increased more sharply than expected in January due to an increase in machine building, chemical plants and building materials factories increasing power use by 15 to 20%.
Oh, yes, for 7 years, one pipe-rolling shop was repaired! This is undoubtedly a success and a breakthrough. And tell me, why did the "launch of the industry" coincide with the arrival of the cyclone and frost every day? ))) And why did you request electricity from the enemy and the aggressor country? Hey! How can you do that?
Ukraine already offered to have a 3rd party control the border and the occupied part of the Donbas (OSCE or UN) to remove the burden raised on doing #4 before #9.
This is out of the question. International organizations are in crisis and can not ensure the security of the region.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) with some decrying the move as a capitulation."
