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Let me ask you this: are Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, et al, saved?
wait a minute... let's not get away from the question...
arise, be baptized, wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord...
You say he is commanding Saul/Paul to be spiritually baptized, wash away his sins (that's done by the blood of Christ) calling on the name of the Lord.
I've read Romans... all of it.
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
His death is where He shed his blood. we have to come in contact with that blood to be cleansed...
Baptism is symbolizing the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ... we are baptized into his death... raised out of the water to walk in newness of life. we are united with Him in the likeness of his death.... how is spiritual baptism in the likeness of His death?
wait a minute... let's not get away from the question...
arise, be baptized, wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord...
You say he is commanding Saul/Paul to be spiritually baptized, wash away his sins (that's done by the blood of Christ) calling on the name of the Lord.
I've read Romans... all of it.
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
His death is where He shed his blood. we have to come in contact with that blood to be cleansed...
Baptism is symbolizing the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ... we are baptized into his death... raised out of the water to walk in newness of life. we are united with Him in the likeness of his death.... how is spiritual baptism in the likeness of His death?
I have read all of Romans as well. I have never come away from it convinced that one needs a water baptism for salvation.
The problem with people referring to Rom. 10:9-10 is that they stop at those two verses and don't consider the other verses following. Anytime you read scripture, you have to consider the other scriptures. Rom. 10:13 is another scripture that people often read by itself. I have learned that you can take one scripture and isolate it from the other scriptures and teach false doctrine. But it's good to refer scripture with other scripture. If you look at some study bibles, they have subheadings. Those subheadings talk about certain things. One chapter can contain several different topics. But my point is that you must consider other scriptures. They do not contradict themselves.
Would also appreciate whether the OT Hebrews are saved.
Just thought of a unique hypo too which would help me understand your position. Let's assume, for the sake of argument only, that these debates over the past few days have caused me to doubt my own salvation for the first time in 10 years. I was baptized as an infant but now really feel compelled to be immersed as an adult. I ask my wife and local pastor (both immersed as adults) to baptize me in my favorite stream and in front of sone very close friends and family as witnesses, very similar to water baptisms in Acts. If I were to go through with that over the weekend, would I be assured of my salvation on Monday morning?
Last edited by joeyknish; 12-29-2011 at 11:28 AM..
The problem with people referring to Rom. 10:9-10 is that they stop at those two verses and don't consider the other verses following. Anytime you read scripture, you have to consider the other scriptures. Rom. 10:13 is another scripture that people often read by itself. I have learned that you can take one scripture and isolate it from the other scriptures and teach false doctrine. But it's good to refer scripture with other scripture. If you look at some study bibles, they have subheadings. Those subheadings talk about certain things. One chapter can contain several different topics. But my point is that you must consider other scriptures. They do not contradict themselves.
I have the same inclinations about your collective interpretations on Acts 2.
By the way, Romans 10 goes on to state "“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
This is a quote from Joel 2:32.
That's true. Joel was predicting what would happen in the future. Paul was told the same thing. Calling on the name of the Lord is not a verbal thing. It is not prayer. You call on the name of the Lord in obedience. This is what Paul did. He was already praying before Ananias got to him. Notice Acts 22:16 when it says "arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins". It didn't say "and" call. It said "calling", meaning that as he was being baptized, Paul was calling in obedience. It's all tied together. When we are baptized today for the remission of sins, then we are calling on the name of the Lord, but thru obedience.
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