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Old 01-11-2011, 04:06 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,768,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
I think what sschulz is saying is that if Christ gave his life, then his followers would naturally do the same if necessary.

Your answer is very telling, imo.
I appreciate your honesty though, Mike.

Peace,
brian
It is very telling, isn't it?

 
Old 01-11-2011, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,584,844 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
hurt people, hurt people.
Yes, they sure do. Hence the old saying: "Misery loves company."
 
Old 01-11-2011, 04:10 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,935,204 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
If you care to read further Latte Chic , you will see clearly that choice is impossible, it takes something supernatural to be saved.

Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?”


Jesus replied, “What is impossible with men is possible with God.”

Peter said to him, “We have left all we had to follow you!”
“I tell you the truth,”</SPAN> Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life.”.

If you think this is just referring to rich people you are kidding yourself.</SPAN>

when we have jesus' words verses johns words,,,ill always beck Jesus',,,,i dont think the opossitls,most of them anyway,were picked bye Jesus because of their intelligence,more so for their hearts,after all bye trade they were fishermen,no disrespect but if any oppesitles words contradict jesus' charachter,actions or words,then either it has been changed over the years,or not fully uinderstood.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,123,362 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
It is very telling, isn't it?
It all just seems very very selfish, all about self: I'm saved, I'm going to heaven, I have faith, I'm ok...

That's why I believe that the faith that man is justified is indeed not his own, but the very faith of Jesus Himself which saves us.

Otherwise, we fall into the "self" mode again. Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 4:7--
"For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"

It's not man's faith that justifies him, but Jesus' faith that has done ALL the work.

Blessings!
Brian
 
Old 01-11-2011, 04:13 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,935,204 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
God's wrath is temporary, and you cannot prove otherwise without using mistranslated words. That's where UR does win out.
i was just about to say the same thing,,,''God's wrath'',but for how long???

Gods wrath is just karma,he wouldnt punish someone in a way that was undeserving,something ETers just cant get into their heads.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 04:21 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,935,204 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
You know what God is thinking ...... then have it your way. Join the group that:

“ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving."




Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.”

Matthew 7:23
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."


ohh that's right.... never doesn't mean "never"

just many of the contradictions that present themselves in the bible!!!

you should go with what Jesus teached,tolerance,patience,commpassion,understandi ng,care,honesty,all these make up Love,the same quality's that God possess in full,if mark or matthew or corintians or whatever contradict God's Loving nature,then you have to start questioning what is truth and hat is not.

''For God so loved the World'',and he wasnt talking about mountains and volcanos and what have you!!!!!!
 
Old 01-11-2011, 04:22 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,331 posts, read 20,055,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
It all just seems very very selfish, all about self: I'm saved, I'm going to heaven, I have faith, I'm ok...

That's why I believe that the faith that man is justified is indeed not his own, but the very faith of Jesus Himself which saves us.

Otherwise, we fall into the "self" mode again. Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 4:7--
"For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"

It's not man's faith that justifies him, but Jesus' faith that has done ALL the work.

Blessings!
Brian
Brian there are even many believers in eternal torment who would never allow themselves to utter the words i found, chose, or decided for Jesus,their testimony is, i was blind and now i see, i was lost but now i'm found, i did not choose him, he chose me, it was his goodness and mercy that led me to faith and repentance.These ET believers are the ones who also end up believing in UR,because believing it's God seeking us, believing in us and finding us, it doesn't take much more to believe he's willing to seek, believe and find all.

By the way Good post too.

Last edited by pcamps; 01-11-2011 at 04:37 PM..
 
Old 01-11-2011, 04:31 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,713,584 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Mike,
I think I see where your confusion is now..
the justification which man receives is by the faith of Jesus Christ, not our own faith. It is the faith of Jesus which has justified all mankind, it is not man's faith which justifies him.
Here's a good link to the use of the words "justified" and "faith" in the NT: BibleGateway.com - Keyword*Search: justified faith
You can see clearly that the faith which is written of is NOT the faith which man is able to scrape up, but Jesus' faith which justifies us all.

And Gal. 3:8--"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed." It is GOD's faith which justifies all mankind, not man's feeble attempts at faith which justify him, as though he had anything of himself. All things come from God, including faith.

As for salvation: salvation is brought by God to the sheep, one by one, as He brings them back into the fold. Not all are saved right now, but will come some at the sixth, ninth and last hour.

So we have justification of all mankind, finished 2,000 years ago by Jesus Christ, who is indeed LORD of all.
And we have salvation, which the Lord is revealing to a few precious ones in this life, but who will have all men to be saved eventually.

Blessings,
brian
The confusion is not mine. As you reject fundamental doctrine you will reject the fact that justification is by faith in Christ.

As for the issue of 'faith in Christ' versus 'faith of Christ', you may wish to study the difference between the Greek 'subjective genitive' and the 'objective genitive.

Faith "in" or "of" Jesus? - Romans 3:22



The work of Christ on the cross made justification available to those who believe in Christ for salvation. You have been shown several passages which plainly tell you that it is to those who place their faith in Christ that God imputes His righteousness by which He pronounces the one who believes, justified. This is made possible by what Christ did on the cross. Refer back to posts #69, 87, 202, 222. The passages are in those posts so I will not bother to post them again. Whether or not you and anyone else reading this are willing to objectively study the doctrine of Justification is up to you.

Here is a small link for an overview of justification.

Justification
 
Old 01-11-2011, 05:34 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,713,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. John 3:3

So was you born again before you made a choice ?if you was i could acknowledge you were able to understand what the Holy Spirit was revealing to you.You not the scriptures tell us we are only born again by choice,but if you are not born again you cannot see the kingdom of God to make that choice.

I hope this exposes the lie that we become born again by choice . The scriptures tell us the natural man cannot understand the things of God, so how on earth can man choose God ?.
By means of the Common Grace Ministry of God the Holy Spirit at the point of Gospel hearing.

Quote:
This is how a man comes to faith

For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. 2 Cor4:6
This is how man comes to faith.

Romans 10:17 'So faith comes from hearing (the Gospel message) and hearing by the word of Christ.'

God calls man through the Gospel.

2 Thess 2:14 ''And it was for this He called you through our Gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord.'


Quote:
The carnal christian cannot understand this , because he does not understand that God's kingdom is within us, and looks for truth everywhere(even the scriptures) but there, the bottom line is, if you are looking for truth it's right there inside of you.Right in your heart just like 2 Cor 4:6 says.
Faith preceeds salvation.

The very purpose of the gospel message is so that the spiritually dead unbeliever can receive the message by which he can make a decision to place his faith in Chirst of not.

As I have already said, it is by means of the COMMON GRACE MINISTRY OF GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT, that the spiritually dead unbeliever may understand the spiritual phenomenon which is the Gospel. This is not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which is for believers only, this is a specialized ministry of the Holy Spirit for making the gospel message understandable to the unbeliever.

Now pay attention to these passages.

Eph 1:13 'In Him, you also, after listening to the gospel of your salvation---having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.

Gal 3:2 'This is the only thing I want to find out from you; did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, OR BY HEARING WITH FAITH?

John 20:31 'but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.


And no, God's kingdom is NOT inside us. There is a spiritual sense in which the church-age believer is in the Kingdom, but that is completely different from the erronious belief that the kingdom is in us. It is not!!!

Jesus told the unbelieving Pharisees in Luke 17:20-21 that the kingdom of God was in their midst. He was telling them that since He is the king of the kingdom, that the kingdom was in their midst.

Now, because there were some different elements in your post, I answered it. But if you are going to keep harping on your idea that man can't make a choice, I refer readers back to posts #163, 167, 171, 174, and 247.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,276 posts, read 10,069,288 times
Reputation: 15208
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Then you agree that man is NOT able and willing. Then how is the man to be saved? At some point are you going to tell me that the man becomes willing?

Perhaps I should have said, "but, man is NOT willing" -- It's what I meant, but I can see your point in the way it was phrased
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