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Old 01-11-2011, 12:50 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,823 posts, read 9,816,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Good post twin. It's amazing that anyone can deny what is so plainly stated in the Scriptures.
It's because he's confident that using the "throwing spaghetti on the wall to see what sticks" method will show who has the superiority of knowing what God's will is ...UR version will override Jesus knowledge.
John 6:40
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life.....”

or another way of saying that is:
1 Corinthians 1:21
"For since in the wisdom of God ... God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe."

whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life" John 5:24 ......
"the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day." John 12:48


John 5:24 + John 12:48 is the same way of saying:John 3:36

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”






 
Old 01-11-2011, 01:11 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,751,670 times
Reputation: 58198
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
It's because he's confident that using the "throwing spaghetti on the wall to see what sticks" method will show who has the superiority of knowing what God's will is ...UR version will override Jesus knowledge.
John 6:40
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life.....”

or another way of saying that is:
1 Corinthians 1:21
"For since in the wisdom of God ... God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe."

whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life" John 5:24 ......
"the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day." John 12:48


John 5:24 + John 12:48 is the same way of saying:John 3:36

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”





God's wrath is temporary, and you cannot prove otherwise without using mistranslated words. That's where UR does win out.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 01:14 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,195 posts, read 19,986,915 times
Reputation: 2107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Good post twin. It's amazing that anyone can deny what is so plainly stated in the Scriptures.
Your own words prove that some are blinded to the scriptures and others are not, there is nothing plain to see about the scriptures if you are blind.

Those denying and rejecting can do nothing but that, you did it until the Lord opened your eyes and you had no choice but to confess "Lord i believe", if you have had your eyes opened that is. It's the same for all of us.

Anyone who believes they chose or thought they made a decision for Jesus, deny's the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives.The Holy Spirit was working in our lives the moment we came into this world, it's not that hard to see if your eyes are opened to God.

You really believe that somebody said Jesus died on the cross for you to you and from that moment became a christian, that God had nothing to do with it, and if he did, he had no previous with you, i wonder why you could never see him in your life prior to believing ?, yes that's right your eyes were not opened until he made himself known to you.

For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

Do you really believe all this happened moments before you became a believer. ?

Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?.

What does it mean tolerance and patience ?, was God A), tapping his foot saying "come on Camps i have told you about Jesus, you better make your mind up i'm coming soon , and if you haven't believed by then , though i love you unconditionally i am going to cast you with my very own loving unconditional hands in to eternal flames" ?.

Or B) was he tenderly, patiently, lovingly, drawing me to himself, and in doing so convincing and persuading me until the glorious gospel dawned upon me and revealed himself to me.

I think i will go with B.

Last edited by pcamps; 01-11-2011 at 01:29 PM..
 
Old 01-11-2011, 01:47 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,823 posts, read 9,816,901 times
Reputation: 1301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
God's wrath is temporary, and you cannot prove otherwise without using mistranslated words. That's where UR does win out.
You know what God is thinking ......http://http.cdnlayer.com/cf/images/smilies/onion/ahah.gif (broken link) then have it your way. Join the group that:

“ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving."




Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.”

Matthew 7:23
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."


ohh that's right.... never doesn't mean "never"
 
Old 01-11-2011, 01:55 PM
 
2,952 posts, read 2,254,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
You know what God is thinking ...... then have it your way.
i don't know which one of the Gods you are following but this one seems mighty rough.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,823 posts, read 9,816,901 times
Reputation: 1301
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
i don't know which one of the Gods you are following but this one seems mighty rough.
The one who searches the heart.

John 5:29-30
those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. ......, I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just,


 
Old 01-11-2011, 02:02 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,654,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
It's also amazing that you cannot find one single scripture where Jesus said face to face to an individual choose or decide for me .

You believe the dumbest things such as we can choose to be born again, that Judas knew God and chose him, when in thank Jesus explicitly said he chose the disciples and call Jesus a devil.
Once again, I will refer readers back to posts #163, 167, 171, and 174.


pcamps claims that I said this.

'that Judas knew God and chose him,'


Here in post #163 is what I actually said concerning Judas Iscariot.

[quote=Mike555;17345012]

Judas Iscariot spent three years with Jesus but He never believed in Him as Savior. Judas Iscariot died as an unbeliever and is in Hades today.

Matthew 26:24 “The Son of Man is to go just as it is written of Him. But woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born”

John 17:12 “While I was with them, I was keeping them in Thy name which Thou hast given Me; and I guarded them, and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.”

In John 6:70, Jesus asked the rhetorical question to His twelve apostles, "Jesus answered them, ''Did I myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?''

Luke 22:3 'And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot...' Satan cannot indwell a believer. Influence a believer, yes. But he cannot indwell a believers body. Judas was fully possessed by Satan at the end. John 13:27 'And after the morsel, Satan then entered into him. Jesus therefore said to him, ''What you must do, do quickly.''

John 6:64 ''But there are some of you who do not believe.'' For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.'

Now you might ask how Judas could perform miracles if he was an unbeliever. Look at Matthew 7:21 ''Not everyone who says to Me, ''Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22] ''Many will say to Me on that day, ''Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name perform many miracles?'' 23] ''And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'' Jesus will declare as lawless, those who performed miracles in His name. But Jesus will say to them that He never knew them because they never trusted Him for their personal salvation.


Here are a couple of links concerning Judas.

Was Judas Iscariot forgiven / saved?

Was Judas Iscariot Saved or Lost?
 
Old 01-11-2011, 02:05 PM
 
2,952 posts, read 2,254,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The one who searches the heart.

John 5:29-30
those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. ......, I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just,

those who are condemned seem to be trying to share their condemnation with others and we don't want it... let the condemned enjoy their condemnation all to themselves. get an island.

hurt people, hurt people.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 02:18 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,932,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No one is justifed at physical birth. Everyone is born spiritually dead and under judgment. Readers please refer to post #182.

This is Post 87
then why did Jesus say '' come to me with the heart of a child'',

you see that simple little statement puts alot into perspective,to me anyway,the heart of a child,dosent judge,nor breath fear into other peoples hearts,your philosophy is based on fear,''you have to accept this or else'',so although their may be many adults that have fallen for the doctrine of men,God will not judge them on what they beleive but rather whats in their hearts.

in an earlier post you told me that my heart will lead me to the devil,but the heart knows what is good and what is bad,its our spiritual instinct,many ignore it but many use it,infact how else do you contact god,not through the mind but through the heart,because like i said in an earlier post-- thats where god is,their is a science behind this,that God,although in His personal forms which are above material nature,he also exists as Paramatma(supersoul)inside the hearts(soul) of every living entity.it is His localised aspect of Himself.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 02:20 PM
 
351 posts, read 283,254 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Refer to the following thread.

The Orthodox View of Hell is correct in that Hell is a place of Conscious Everlasting Torment POST #203



Refer to the following thread.

www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/1097327-jesus-christ-will-reign-forever.html



You don't understand the doctrine of divine decrees. In eternity past God in His omniscience knew all things, both the reality and the potential. What is and what might have been. God knew every thought, decision, and action that His creatures would make. He knew the ramifications of those decisions and actions. He also knew what the ramifications would have been if any decision other than the decision that was made had been made. Therefore, God, knowing what actually would become reality, as opposed to what might have been, decreed that what each of His creatures would actually decide would certainly occur.

The divine decrees - actually one big decree do not cause anyone to make a certain choice. The divine decrees simply make certain that what man and angelic free will would decide would certainly happen.

Had you made a different decision with regard to some particular thing, then God would have included that other decision in His divine decree instead of the decision which you did make.

God's sovereignty and His omniscience do not negate man's free will. God's omniscience simply took cognizance of whatever decision you make and His divine decree in eternity past makes certain that that volitional decision becomes a reality.

God didn't make you decide anything. He knew what you would decide and enabled it to occur by entering that decision into His divine decrees. He left out of His divine decrees the other decisions that you might have made but chose not to. Therefore the choice that you make is certain from eternity past to become reality, whereas the decisions you did not make remain only a potential.

God's sovereignty gave man free will and His divine decrees made man's free will decisions a certainty.



Refer to the following thread.

The Orthodox View of Hell is correct in that Hell is a place of Conscious Everlasting Torment POSTS #63,112, and 120.

Man is born spiritually dead because God imputed Adam's original sin to the genetically acquired old sin nature. A baby is born spiritually dead long before he is able to commit a personal sin.

When Adam sinned, he acquired a propensity to sin - an old sin nature, which the Bible calls 'the old man' and 'the flesh'. The reason that Jesus had to come into the world by a virgin birth is because the sin nature is passed down through the male.

When a baby is born God imputes Adam's original sin to the genetically acquired sin nature. This results in immediate spiritual death - separation from God.

God did not wait around for each person to commit a personal sin before condemning him. He imputed Adam's original sin to the sin nature and condemned each person at the moment of physical birth.

Our personal sins were set aside until Jesus came into the world and God the Father imputed our personal sins to Jesus who was judged for them.

Hi Mike the link you provided for The Orthodox View of Hell is correct in that Hell is a place of Conscious Everlasting Torment POST #203.

Does not address the question of being willing to suffer eternal torture in Hell to save your children from the same fate as being a greater sacrifice that laying down your life for another. If it is than Jesus was wrong when he said:

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13.

Laying down your life and knowing you are going to hell for it is a greater sacrifice and greater love if ET exists.

I followed your links and read up on the doctrine of divine decrees and on Robert McLaughlin. Needless to say I disagree with this doctrine and think it is interpreting the scriptures wrongly. I see where a lot of your believes come from but I think this doctrine is wrong. I think that God is in control of his creation at all times and post the following for comment.

Now for maybe the most profound and all-encompassing statements in all Scripture:



"In Whom [GOD] also we have obtained [‘obtained’ not ‘earned’] an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED [our ‘destiny’ was ‘pre’ arranged by God, not us] according to the PURPOSE OF HIM [not the free will, OF US!] Who WORKS ALL THINGS [EVERYthing] AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL [not OUR OWN WILL]" (Eph. 1:11).
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