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Old 01-11-2011, 06:32 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,197,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Yes indeed Ironmaw. The free will gospel is such a bunch of codswallop it's untrue. It's full of holes,contradictions, pride and keeps those who believe it double minded, they chose Jesus, Jesus chose them, they found Jesus, Jesus found them, they sought Jesus, Jesus sought them,they called Jesus,Jesus called them and so on.

Christian..... there is joy and peace in the knowledge of,he sought,chose you and found you, that he sat your feet upon the rock and made your footsteps firm, drop the idea you chose Jesus,acknowledge he chose you, i guarantee,you will see the scriptures in a way you have never seen before, your faith will increase, and you will come into a greater understanding of his love for you.
Exactly, that is why they do not believe that Jesus saves ... Instead the believe and teach that he only offers us the opportunity to be saved, that is to save our selves by searching for God and making a freewill decision to believe (etc.), which we have seen is impossible for anyone who has not yet been quickened by the spirit of God.

 
Old 01-11-2011, 06:57 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,720,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
All you have come up with is Nicodemus was given a choice, which is not true, and Judas knew Jesus , if anyone is playing with words and being petty i would say it's you. I will say again on the authority of the scripture that telling someone they have a choice or decision to make is a lie.

Anyone who knows the gospels, knows that any character spoken of in them who met Jesus face to face were never ever given a choice or decision by Jesus to make.

Whether it was Bartimaeus,Zacchaeus, the man at the pool of Bethesda, the woman at the well, the woman caught in adultery, the woman who washed his feet with her tears and dried them with her hair, the paralytic lowered through the roof,the demon possessed man,the dead girl, the woman who bled for 12 years, the Syrophoenician Woman,the deaf and mute man,the boy with the evil spirit,the man with leprosy,the crippled woman healed on the sabbath and any other character Jesus met in the gospel accounts were not presented with a choice or decision to be made before they received anything from God.

You continually ignore the fact that ONLY God opens our eyes to see, do you even understand the simplicity of that Mike ?.In otherwords Mike, unless God opens our eyes we remain blind. The moment He does it's "Lord i believe".

You cannot choose to be born again, just like you and i could never choose to be born naturally. The natural types the spiritual

You ignore that God has concluded us all in unbelief , that he might have mercy on all

So the conclusion is you have not proved that when ever Jesus met anyone on a one one to one basis he gave them a choice or decision to make, and to say my post is petty is just a cop out, because you simply cannot prove otherwise.
What an awesome post! I never thought of it that way! Jesus NEVER made anyone make a choice. Very insightful, yet it was right there in front of our eyes all along. Wish I could rep you!
 
Old 01-11-2011, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,285,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post

Make billions upon billions of of eternal beings (in your own image) who are foreknown to be eternally, consciously damned/tormented - all to show the angels they have no excuse.
.
firstborn888,

You must remember that only Adam was made in God's image, and those who believe in Christ are made in His image.
Anyone outside of that, has no image.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,567,956 times
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pcamps wrote:
Quote:
You continually ignore the fact that ONLY God opens our eyes to see, do you even understand the simplicity of that Mike ?.In otherwords Mike, unless God opens our eyes we remain blind. The moment He does it's "Lord i believe".

You cannot choose to be born again, just like you and i could never choose to be born naturally. The natural types the spiritual

You ignore that God has concluded us all in unbelief , that he might have mercy on all
So true, so true. And I try to keep this in mind when I begin to feel frustrated with people's blindness to the glory of the gospel of peace, knowing that the thing that hinders them from seeing is not themselves. We go from grace to grace (one of those graces being patience to bear with those who are weak in faith).
 
Old 01-11-2011, 07:50 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,197,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
firstborn888,

You must remember that only Adam was made in God's image, and those who believe in Christ are made in His image.
Anyone outside of that, has no image.
So sciotamicks, i have to ask you a question ... How do you proselytize?

Do you say something like, "right now you don't really exist, you're just a figment of my imagination ... But if you believe what i tell you to you will become real".

Or something like, "right now you are not a real human, you are more like an animal, but if you believe the way i do you will become a human".

Another question, if most humans are not real, or do not really exist, then how can you truly love them?

And if you kill someone who is not a Christian or a Jew, then in Gods eyes it must not really be murder because they are not really alive, or do not really exist ... right?

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 01-11-2011 at 08:12 PM..
 
Old 01-11-2011, 08:15 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,197,872 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
So sciotamicks, i have to ask you a question ... How do you proselytize?

Do you say something like, "right now you don't really exist, you're just a figment of my imagination ... But if you believe what i tell you to you will become real".

Or something like, "right now you are not a real human, you are more like an animal, but if you believe the way i do you will become a human".

Another question, if most humans are not real, or do not really exist, then how can you truly love them?

And if you kill someone who is not a Christian or a Jew, then in Gods eyes it must not really be murder because they are not really alive, or do not really exist ... right?
It reminds me of a movie ... There is this assassin who when asked how he is able to kill people without any hesitation and without becoming ridden with guilt, he replies ... "i just tell myself that the people i kill are not real", or something to that effect.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 08:32 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,147 posts, read 19,964,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
pcamps wrote:


So true, so true. And I try to keep this in mind when I begin to feel frustrated with people's blindness to the glory of the gospel of peace, knowing that the thing that hinders them from seeing is not themselves. We go from grace to grace (one of those graces being patience to bear with those who are weak in faith).
I agree with you Heartsong with bearing with those who are weak in faith, but the biblian is another kettle fish , he will wear you down, if you allow him to with bible verses that appear to fit his doctrine, and then he slip's off like a snake when you call him out on the error of his thinking.So you have to deal with him on a total different level. The fundamentalist bible needs to carry a government health warning.

Last edited by pcamps; 01-11-2011 at 09:03 PM..
 
Old 01-11-2011, 08:54 PM
 
17,689 posts, read 8,866,529 times
Reputation: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You must remember that only Adam was made in God's image, and those who believe in Christ are made in His image.
Anyone outside of that, has no image.
One thing that man appears to be very good at is creating mythical creatures; the Legend of Dracula.

No reflection, just a thought ...

 
Old 01-11-2011, 09:18 PM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,638,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I agree with you Heartsong with bearing with those who are weak in faith, but the biblian is another kettle fish , he will wear you down, if you allow him to with bible verses that appear to fit his doctrine, and then he slip's off like a snake when you call him out on the error of his thinking. The fundamentalist bible needs to carry a government health warning.
As this slippery snake told you in post #174, any further pursuit concerning this issue would simply be referred back to posts #163, 167, 171, and 174. Nothing more need be added to what was said there. You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept it.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 09:28 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,147 posts, read 19,964,744 times
Reputation: 2105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As this slippery snake told you in post #174, any further pursuit concerning this issue would simply be referred back to posts #163, 167, 171, and 174. Nothing more need be added to what was said there. You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept it.
Yet you still have not quoted one scripture where Jesus gave any individual he spoke to face to face a choice or a decision to make . At least Latte Chic was bold enough to attempt to quote what she thought was the case with the account of the rich young ruler. All you have come up with is Jesus giving Nicodemus a choice to be born again, and every reasonable thinking person would tell you, naturally or spiritually you have no choice in the matter. You are as mystified as Nicodemus when it comes to understanding how one is born again.
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