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Old 01-12-2011, 07:16 PM
 
20,330 posts, read 15,705,873 times
Reputation: 7467

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
It's rather obvious what Gary's position is on the link given. However, there is a much better book on this subject matter, and what the term "faith of Jesus" (the true reading of the text) actually means. For those interested, here it is:

Amazon.com: The Faith of Jesus Christ: The Narrative Substructure of Galatians 3:1-4:11 (The Biblical Resource Series) (9780802849571): Richard B. Hays: Books

That's a very poor understanding of justification and the meaning you've given it.

Scripturally, justification is a forensic act, by God, upon the sinner, and is based solely upon the merits of Christ alone. The sinner plays no role in God's declaration upon him whatsoever. It is a complete act of grace by God upon the sinner. The act of justification is meritted by Christ's blood making atonement for our sins.
Apart from faith in Jesus Christ, no one is justified before God. It is because of what Christ did on the cross, that the one who believes in Christ is justified.

Imputation credits to the account of the one who believes in Christ, the righteousness of Christ. Justification then declares or pronounces him righteous or justified.

On the basis of the righteousness of Christ imputed to the one who believes, God declares the undeserving sinner justified, vindicated, acceptable to Himself. God is free to declare him free from guilt because the believer possesses the righteousness of Christ.

Romans 4:3 'For what does the Scipture say? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.

Romans 4:5 'But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned (credited to his account) as righteousness.

Galatians 2:16 'nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ... Read it in the Greek transliteration and translation in this Greek/English Interlinear Bible. Galatians 2:16 Biblos Interlinear Bible

With regard to Galatians 2:16, whether you want to argue that it is saying faith of Christ, or faith in Christ, it says WE HAVE BELIEVED IN CHRIST JESUS, THAT WE MAY BE JUSTIFIED.

To understand justification or any other doctrine, you must take into account all pertinent scripture. Not just one or two passages taken out of context.


For those interested, here is an overview of the doctrine of Justification. Justification

 
Old 01-12-2011, 07:27 PM
 
20,330 posts, read 15,705,873 times
Reputation: 7467
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Spiritual warfare happens between our ears and nowhere else.


4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled 2 Cor 10

Do you believe by spiritual warfare you can bring somebody else's thoughts to the obedience of Christ ?. If you believe spiritual warfare is anywhere but in the mind, i think you do.
For the believer, his battlefield in the angelic conflict is indeed in the soul. And that is why man has volition. For the angels, the battlefield is in the heavenlies.

Ephesians 6:12 'For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, in the heavenly places.

The Angelic Conflict; the Spiritual Warfare
 
Old 01-12-2011, 07:44 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,296 posts, read 20,040,776 times
Reputation: 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
For the believer, his battlefield in the angelic conflict is indeed in the soul. And that is why man has volition. For the angels, the battlefield is in the heavenlies.

Ephesians 6:12 'For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, in the heavenly places.

www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/885157-angelic-conflict-spiritual-warfare.html

The heavenly places are within you, just like the kingdom of God is.

See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness.Luke 11:35
 
Old 01-12-2011, 07:50 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,317,766 times
Reputation: 327
Mike - The points I've made and the scriptures I've given you have really not been addressed in your responses. You've really not been able to discuss the subjects of Justification, imputation, regeneration, synergism vs. monergism, duty faith, Calvinism vs. Arminianism, etc., or by using relevant scripture and by using sound principals of biblical exegesis to substantiate your position. Actually, your responses are becoming more cultic as we progress (not good)...LOL.

Another difficulty I see is that when you provide an explanation regarding a particular subject you do not actually use correct theological terms, phrases and words that support your conclusions. And when you do, they're not really being used within their correct context or meaning of scripture. This makes it difficult to communicate with you regarding biblical matters. It's clear to me that you're simply regurgitating phrases and sentences from linked web sites or other postings you've made without actually dealing with the subject matter at hand. You don't really know or understand the subject material. That's clear to me, and I would imagine others as well.

You've not really put up anything of substance in your responses to me. You'll really need to do better.
 
Old 01-12-2011, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,387,655 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Mike - The points I've made and the scriptures I've given you have really not been addressed in your responses. You've really not been able to discuss the subjects of Justification, imputation, regeneration, synergism vs. monergism, duty faith, Calvinism vs. Arminianism, etc., or by using relevant scripture and by using sound principals of biblical exegesis to substantiate your position. Actually, your responses are becoming more cultic as we progress (not good)...LOL.

Another difficulty I see is that when you provide an explanation regarding a particular subject you do not actually use correct theological terms, phrases and words that support your conclusions. And when you do, they're not really being used within their correct context or meaning of scripture. This makes it difficult to communicate with you regarding biblical matters. It's clear to me that you're simply regurgitating phrases and sentences from linked web sites or other postings you've made without actually dealing with the subject matter at hand. You don't really know or understand the subject material. That's clear to me, and I would imagine others as well.

You've not really put up anything of substance in your responses to me. You'll really need to do better.
Yes, really.


Cheshire Cat: Oh, by the way, if you'd really like to know, he went that way.
Alice: Who did?
Cheshire Cat: The White Rabbit.
Alice: He did?
Cheshire Cat: He did what?
Alice: Went that way.
Cheshire Cat: Who did?
Alice: The White Rabbit.
Cheshire Cat: What rabbit?
Alice: But didn't you just say - I mean - Oh, dear.
Cheshire Cat: Can you stand on your head?
Alice: Oh!
 
Old 01-12-2011, 08:18 PM
 
20,330 posts, read 15,705,873 times
Reputation: 7467
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
The heavenly places are within you, just like the kingdom of God is.

See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness.Luke 11:35
No. There are three heavens spoken of in the word of God.

1) The first heaven: The band of atmosphere which surrounds the earth. 1 Kings 14:11.

2) The second heaven: The entire stellar universe. Deuternomy 4:19.

3) The third heaven. The throne room of God which is far above all the heavens. 2 Cor 12:2-4; Eph 4:10

During the angelic conflict;

1) The world is Satan' domain. Job 1:7; 1 Peter 5:8.

2) Satan is the ruler of this world. John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11.

3) Satan is the prince of the power of the air. Eph 2:2.

4) Satan influences rulers. 1 Chronicles 21:1-5

5) Satan is the father of unbelievers. John 8:44.
 
Old 01-12-2011, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
689 posts, read 417,475 times
Reputation: 90
If God chooses to 'save' all men, actually the word 'save' should not be used, as no one needs to be saved at all, everyone will go to heaven any way.

If God chooses to 'save' all men, He may do at the beginning such that noone will fall at the beginning. God however chooses to let go the so-called free-will, this applies to angels as well as humans. As a result, the angels fell (i.e. Satan), the humans fell (i.e. Adam).

Earth is a place with influences from both God and Satan. Under this half-half influencing, only the minority will choose to return to God. Then God will receive those minority back to His Kingdom (with 0 tolerence of sin and as a result Adam and Lucifer fell).

After those minority being taken by God, what left will be those who don't want God, and they will be no longer in a half-half influence realm. Rather will be in a realm Satan's power dominates.

If in a half-half realm only the minority will choose God, what percentage of 'humans' will choose God in a Satan-dominent realm? Worse still, it is said that in such a realm the angels (fallen ones) will turn themselves into the devils. The question left..... will humans still be the humans??!!!

To put it short,

angels fell, humans fell.
angels became devils, humans...

You bet!


For your reference to see how fast you change in a half-half realm,

Before 30s last century, perhaps only 1% humans in the western side could touch nudity/porns. Today, perhaps only 1% of you could not have touched them.

Now have an evaluation on how fast you will change in a Satan dominant realm!!!
 
Old 01-12-2011, 08:28 PM
 
20,330 posts, read 15,705,873 times
Reputation: 7467
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Mike - The points I've made and the scriptures I've given you have really not been addressed in your responses. You've really not been able to discuss the subjects of Justification, imputation, regeneration, synergism vs. monergism, duty faith, Calvinism vs. Arminianism, etc., or by using relevant scripture and by using sound principals of biblical exegesis to substantiate your position. Actually, your responses are becoming more cultic as we progress (not good)...LOL.

Another difficulty I see is that when you provide an explanation regarding a particular subject you do not actually use correct theological terms, phrases and words that support your conclusions. And when you do, they're not really being used within their correct context or meaning of scripture. This makes it difficult to communicate with you regarding biblical matters. It's clear to me that you're simply regurgitating phrases and sentences from linked web sites or other postings you've made without actually dealing with the subject matter at hand. You don't really know or understand the subject material. That's clear to me, and I would imagine others as well.

You've not really put up anything of substance in your responses to me. You'll really need to do better.
This isn't a debate. I have shown quite clearly from Scripture, and in short order, that contrary to your belief, no one is justified apart from faith in Christ. You can continue to reject that fact if you will. You have that right. Readers can refer to post #333 in which this is made clear.

If you want to debate, do it with someone else.
 
Old 01-12-2011, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
689 posts, read 417,475 times
Reputation: 90
And God does things according to the Law set up, humans are subject to Covenants granted. And there will be a final judgment by Law and Covenants.

Of course, God loves His sheep such that His sheep whose names are written in the Book of Life will finally be saved, as for those wolves and goats...do you expect Him to break His own Law and Covenants to show His mercy?

Regarding to the Covenant, what nullifies Jesus Christ's sacrifice is the "no hell" doctrine. It is because no hell and everyone is saved that no Jesus is actually needed. Jesus Christ thus saves noone (you are saved anyway with or without Jesus. That is, because God will not put anyone to hell, that everyone will not suffer even without Jesus. That is, the word "save" is totally meanless as noone will suffer). When this doctrine is legalized even inside the Church, this abomination (denial of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit's work) will cause desolation (souls become unsavable thus no harvest) as Jesus is nullified hiddenly.

In an isolatoin from God after the Judgment, humans (the dead) will no longer humans. They are the hopeless. Just like how the fallen angels turned themselves into the devils, humans will turn themselves into monsters. That's naturally what will happen in a (any) place without God's teaching and guidance. And the burning hell awaits.

It's all about His Law and Covenants which is purposefully made to protect His sheep (not the wolves nor the goat). The wolves must be separated as their sinful behavior by their freewill will hurt those sheep. While the goat think that they don't need the Shepherd, they think that they survive the wilderness without the Shepherd, they think they can deal with the wolves and thus choose to live a captive life. They themselves will finally surrender and become part of the wolves. God's setting up of Law of Covenants are all for His sheep (even the wolves and goats part is designed to be all for the good of the sheep in eternity).

Last edited by Hawkins; 01-12-2011 at 08:41 PM..
 
Old 01-12-2011, 08:36 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,296 posts, read 20,040,776 times
Reputation: 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No. There are three heavens spoken of in the word of God.

1) The first heaven: The band of atmosphere which surrounds the earth. 1 Kings 14:11.

2) The second heaven: The entire stellar universe. Deuternomy 4:19.

3) The third heaven. The throne room of God which is far above all the heavens. 2 Cor 12:2-4; Eph 4:10
I acknowledge this, but this does not confirm any warfare going on in any of these 3 heavens in reference to the Ephesians 6 verse you are quoting.

The only warfare the believer needs toknow and fight is the one going on in his mind.
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