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It's not Calvinism though Calvinists might agree with me. Calvin wasn't around when Paul penned those words regarding God's sovereignty.
It is pitiable and pathetic that 21st-century minds have hobbled themselves to our earliest ancestors' primitive and barbaric beliefs about God. To our ignorant primitive ancestors, EVERYTHING was done by God, including their OWN DECISIONS. I cannot understand how such idiotic thinking can still exist today.
Currently, for the last 2,000 years, God has been at peace with the world and has not been reckoning their offenses to them (see 2 Cor.5:19).
There are vessels of indignation which God makes Himself (see Romans 9) and then there are vessels of mercy which He makes.
Someone might ask "Why then is He still blaming for who hath withstood His intention?" It is because that is what they need.
It was important for God to bring down mighty Egypt. The reason given in Romans is so that He name would be published in the entire earth.
It's not Calvinism though Calvinists might agree with me. Calvin wasn't around when Paul penned those words regarding God's sovereignty.
What's the point of publishing a Name that people will be forced to recognize anyway?
No one has yet to explain why people were not created with no other choice but to follow God at the start.
Also, you use eisegesis to interpret scriptures. Below is flaw in doing that.
If the scripture was interpreted to mean what you say it means there would be no reason for the very next verse after 2 Cor 5:19. Which says, "Therefore, we are ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.” - 2 Cor 5:20.
Note: Your interpretation of 2 Cor 5:19 is incorrect. Making an appeal...to who in verse 20? According to your doctrine there would be no need. Why beg people to become reconciled? You don't beg people to become anything if there is no choice. See it's what you get out of the scriptures and not the lenses you put in front of them.
What's the point of publishing a Name that people will be forced to recognize anyway?
Really? Was Saul, who became Paul, forced to recognize? Did Jesus put a sword to his throat? Geesh!
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No one has yet to explain why people were not created with no other choice but to follow God at the start.
I have, just not in this thread. Everyone has a will. But it is not free. The Bible calls it the will of the flesh. And says the flesh is at enmity to God and cannot please God (see Romans 8). Therefore God created humanity this way for a great reason. So that when He saves them, they will know they couldn't save themselves since "All avoid Him."
Quote:
Also, you use eisegesis to interpret scriptures. Below is flaw in doing that.
If the scripture was interpreted to mean what you say it means there would be no reason for the very next verse after 2 Cor 5:19. Which says, "Therefore, we are ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.” - 2 Cor 5:20.
Note: Your interpretation of 2 Cor 5:19 is incorrect. Making an appeal...to who in verse 20? According to your doctrine there would be no need. Why beg people to become reconciled? You don't beg people to become anything if there is no choice. See it's what you get out of the scriptures and not the lenses you put in front of them.
2Co 5:19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation."
God is not reckoning anyone's offenses to them and has done so for 2000 years.
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Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 What's the point of publishing a Name that people will be forced to recognize anyway?
Really? Was Saul, who became Paul, forced to recognize? Did Jesus put a sword to his throat? Geesh!
Paul wanted to do God's will yet was mistaken as to who's side God was on. When Jesus corrected him, Paul reconciled himself. Jesus didn't do it for him or turn a wicked man into a good man. Yes, it was his choice. However, Satan knows he is working against God and doesn't want to change. There are people that know they are working against God and don't want to change themselves. Paul compared to Satan....Apples and oranges.
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Originally Posted by Eusebius
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No one has yet to explain why people were not created with no other choice but to follow God at the start.
I have, just not in this thread. Everyone has a will. But it is not free. The Bible calls it the will of the flesh. And says the flesh is at enmity to God and cannot please God (see Romans 8). Therefore God created humanity this way for a great reason. So that when He saves them, they will know they couldn't save themselves since "All avoid Him."
That makes zero sense. God made people so that He could save them.....if God makes everything happen, then wouldn't that put the blame on Him as to why people are in this mess in the first place? Is God a sociopath?
Example: Couple have a child. Couple dump child in dumpster so that the child knows how much the youngster needs the couple.
That's the 'great reason'? No thanks.
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Originally Posted by Eusebius
Quote:
Also, you use eisegesis to interpret scriptures. Below is flaw in doing that.
If the scripture was interpreted to mean what you say it means there would be no reason for the very next verse after 2 Cor 5:19. Which says, "Therefore, we are ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.” - 2 Cor 5:20.
Note: Your interpretation of 2 Cor 5:19 is incorrect. Making an appeal...to who in verse 20? According to your doctrine there would be no need. Why beg people to become reconciled? You don't beg people to become anything if there is no choice. See it's what you get out of the scriptures and not the lenses you put in front of them.
2Co 5:19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation."
God is not reckoning anyone's offenses to them and has done so for 2000 years..
You just repeated yourself and didn't address 2 Cor 5:20. Why are ambassadors of God begging anyone to 'become reconciled to God' if there wasn't a choice to do so?
As I thought. There is about as much reason to trust you as a 5 Point Calvinist who translates the Bible much the same way.
what a surprise, two little verses from Jehovah Jesus that removes the primary reason for existence of an organization.
Wanna try another wet paper bag pillar like amount of times a predicted end of the world accuracy or failure rates ?
That of course is another indication Jehovah Jesus said that the non-trust spot light is turned your direction.
Last edited by twin.spin; 04-20-2016 at 03:45 PM..
We can point fingers at each other claiming 'you reject the Bible' and the other say 'no I'm not'. Around and around we would go. You say I do I say I don't. Look at my account name. That says it all. Just because I don't accept your interpretation of the Bible doesn't mean I reject the Bible. I don't think that you reject the Bible, I think you have been mislead in interpretation as well as translation. The doctrine you are trying to get the Bible to say is not logically sound and it contradicts with much of the Bible. In fact like the Calvinist basic flaw in their doctrine, if we are all predetermined to follow God there would be no need for the Bible. Genesis 1:1 would say, "Don't worry, I got this. - God" The end. The Bible doesn't say that does it? It has so much more to say. All of it is for exactly what it says 2 Timothy 3:16 says. "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." There would be no need for a book for teaching or reproving if we were all going to be changed to what God wants anyway.
So do you believe in annihilation upon death or after some period of suffering and torment ?
So do you believe in annihilation upon death or after some period of suffering and torment ?
There is no suffering or torment at all after death.
Death = not alive.
Annihilation, as in to never return is for only those that are incorrigible. Those that have chosen a path of a complete lack of humility or meekness are to be removed forever. From my discernment of the Bible is God would rather see a person dead rather than lobotomize them into a creature that can only do His will. I agree with this. Animals are alive but they are not aware of God or that they are even animals. To remove freewill is to remove intelligence. A creature that lives on what God gave them. If a human doesn't have freewill then they might as well be dead. They are no longer the person they were.
God has freewill and we are made in His image. Or is that false? Or does that mean God doesn't have freewill? Is He a slave to His own foreknowledge?
Last edited by 2Timothy316; 04-20-2016 at 07:26 PM..
what a surprise, two little verses from Jehovah Jesus that removes the primary reason for existence of an organization.
Wanna try another wet paper bag pillar like amount of times a predicted end of the world accuracy or failure rates ?
That of course is another indication Jehovah Jesus said that the non-trust spot light is turned your direction.
LOL like no one else attempted and failed? Big whoop.
So is this your defense now? Abandon your doctrine by trying to match failure for failure? Your universal salvation argument has failed and we failed 100 years ago... All that proves is that we are human....ZZZzzzzzzz Good job.
Start a new thread if you want to talk about failed Armageddon predictions.
To drastically change the subject shows how weak your argument on this subject has been. Typical apostate logic.
There is no suffering or torment at all after death.
Death = not alive.
Annihilation, as in to never return is for only those that are incorrigible. Those that have chosen a path of a complete lack of humility or meekness are to be removed forever. From my discernment of the Bible is God would rather see a person dead rather than lobotomize them into a creature that can only do His will. I agree with this. Animals are alive but they are not aware of God or that they are even animals. To remove freewill is to remove intelligence. A creature that lives on what God gave them. If a human doesn't have freewill then they might as well be dead. They are no longer the person they were.
God has freewill and we are made in His image. Or is that false? Or does that mean God doesn't have freewill? Is He a slave to His own foreknowledge?
So decent Buddhists , Muslims and Hindus get to Gods presence immediately upon death ? Only the truly wicked are annihilated?
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