Why do i need to speak spanish ! (retirement, vote, Chicago)
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Okay. You have some valid points. But tell me how horribly radical the idea is to simply fly or bus those who are in the country illegally out of the country and back to their legal place of residence? I'm talking real planes and busses, not similes rigged with gas nozzles. I mean, we've all ridden a bus or flown on an airliner at one point or another, right? Would that idea be overly harsh or holocaust-like?
To a number of people, yes; Bussing, or flying illegals home would be overly harsh and holocaust-like. That's pretty much the position of many of us, though MOST of us conceal it in roundabout arguments. Taken to its 'core', though, it's as you suppose; shipping illegal immigrants home IS 'overly harsh AND holocaust-like'.
Makes you wonder what these folks would say about the REAL holocaust...(but once again, of course, I shouldn't be comparing THIS country with any OTHER...right?)
WHen people bring up the comparison, they are speaking on the attitude toward illegal aliens by an extreme minority, being comparable with the attitude toward Jews in Europe pre-Holocaust.
The Holocaust is an example of that attitude going too far and being acted on.
If something similar were to be executed on illegal aliens, it wouldn't matter what their "crime" was, or their citizenship, or how much they "irritate" people.
But there is definitely a case to compare the attitudes toward Jews in pre-Holocaust Europe, and the attitudes toward illegal Mexican immigrants by the extreme few.
From the outlandish portrayal of a "horde" of evil subhumans who have no other goal in life other than to antagonize "good" Americans, the cruel stereotypes, the conspiracy theories, and all that other good stuff.
I'm sure there's people out there, and maybe in here, who wouldn't be totally opposed to the idea of getting rid of all the illegals. At least one person has brought it up(without getting banned or anything like that, he's still around) more than once, with not many people trying too hard to criticize his idea.
Not to mention how many people who would love "shoot-to-kill" orders on the border, taking out women and children who would have the gall to come into this country illegally.
It's easier to justify something as horrible as a holocaust, when you can dehumanize the group. People are doing that on a constant basis with the Mexican illegals. They're not seen as individuals,as people.
If the intolerant Americans you're mad at are "the extreme few", then how can you compare them with the Nazis in Europe, who were "the government"? By your own words, these 'anti Hispanic wackos' are extremists. Nobody likes extremists. If their views were popular, and if they had any credence, they wouldn't be 'extremists'..right?
Forgetting the "extreme few" for just a moment, how do you feel about the large "unextreme" number of Americans of ALL backgrounds who are just angry about illegal immigration? For example, as in the last few posts.what's your feeling about bussing or flying illegals home? Is that an aim of 'the extreme few', or is that a reasonable request? How about evicting illegals who've been here less than 5 years ? Extreme, or worth discussing? How about deporting illega immigrant felons? OK, or 'mean-spirited'?
Forget the extremists, for just a moment..give us your thoughts on the REST of us. What are we doing wrong?
Extremists gain power when "normal people" fail to act.
WHen people bring up the comparison, they are speaking on the attitude toward illegal aliens by an extreme minority, being comparable with the attitude toward Jews in Europe pre-Holocaust.
The Holocaust is an example of that attitude going too far and being acted on.
If something similar were to be executed on illegal aliens, it wouldn't matter what their "crime" was, or their citizenship, or how much they "irritate" people.
But there is definitely a case to compare the attitudes toward Jews in pre-Holocaust Europe, and the attitudes toward illegal Mexican immigrants by the extreme few.
From the outlandish portrayal of a "horde" of evil subhumans who have no other goal in life other than to antagonize "good" Americans, the cruel stereotypes, the conspiracy theories, and all that other good stuff.
I'm sure there's people out there, and maybe in here, who wouldn't be totally opposed to the idea of getting rid of all the illegals. At least one person has brought it up(without getting banned or anything like that, he's still around) more than once, with not many people trying too hard to criticize his idea.
Not to mention how many people who would love "shoot-to-kill" orders on the border, taking out women and children who would have the gall to come into this country illegally.
It's easier to justify something as horrible as a holocaust, when you can dehumanize the group. People are doing that on a constant basis with the Mexican illegals. They're not seen as individuals,as people.
No, this is not equatable at all.
With the Holocaust, the Jews of Europe had a long history of Pogroms against them. In Russia (and many other European coutries prior to WWII) there was only a certain number of slots - and not many at that - for Jews to enter higher education. They could live in only certain parts of town regardless of how succussful/secularized/assimiliated they were.
Show me how this is the same as deporting illegal immigrants? Show me how such ingrained racism that regularily branched out into violence is the same as allowing illegal to drive/go to school/work in the US? Show me how any of it is comparable?
As I said -- illegal supporters tried and failed to tie their cause with slavery and Jim Crow laws....it didn't work. Now you try it with the Holocaust. Sick and low imo.
Now, the only thing even remotely comparable is that people obviously felt that Jews were subhuman. I imagine stormfront members still feel that way towards a lot of groups, including Mexicans. Racism is an evil that has not been eradicated just yet, and that is a damn shame. The only and best way to defeat racism is by getting people together to realize that we have much more in common then we previously thought. Can't be done when one group of people cannot and refuse to speak English, though. Just a little thing to ponder.....
If the intolerant Americans you're mad at are "the extreme few", then how can you compare them with the Nazis in Europe, who were "the government"? By your own words, these 'anti Hispanic wackos' are extremists. Nobody likes extremists.
Forgetting the "extreme few" for just a moment, how do you feel about the large "unextreme" number of Americans of ALL backgrounds who are just angry about illegal immigration?
Well, my comparison is with those few, and the those few that took over Nazi Germany.
Like I've said time and time again, I'm glad those extreme few are a few.
I think there's a difference between being against illegal immigration, being unhappy with it, and being angry about it. When people invest too much emotion in their anger toward a people, it starts getting spooky. First step is group up the people who make you angry, make them one unit, and start dehumanizin'.
I'm not sure what you're trying to bait me into, but as far as people who don't want illegal immigration, well, I'm part of that group. As well as many "pro-illegals".
But the group that is angry, and feels oppressed by the poor,thinks they're plotting to take over the country and want to make life hell...I'm not really so much in that group.
Well, my comparison is with those few, and the those few that took over Nazi Germany.
Like I've said time and time again, I'm glad those extreme few are a few.
I think there's a difference between being against illegal immigration, being unhappy with it, and being angry about it. When people invest too much emotion in their anger toward a people, it starts getting spooky. First step is group up the people who make you angry, make them one unit, and start dehumanizin'.
I'm not sure what you're trying to bait me into, but as far as people who don't want illegal immigration, well, I'm part of that group. As well as many "pro-illegals".
But the group that is angry, and feels oppressed by the poor,thinks they're plotting to take over the country and want to make life hell...I'm not really so much in that group.
I hate to belabor the point, but you really need to revisit the history of Germany and Europe prior to WWII. It was not the feat of a crazed few -- it was the prevailing thought of an entire society that Jews were not quite on par with 'real' Germans.
I've noticed how young people (dear god, did I just use that phrase? ) are so quick to throw the term 'Nazi' around, and yet they have absolutely no historical context of just what the hell it means. What are they 'teaching' in high school and college these days?!
I'm not sure what you're trying to bait me into, but as far as people who don't want illegal immigration, well, I'm part of that group. As well as many "pro-illegals".
...
Not trying to "bait" anyone..all I want is clear answers. If it's true that you're "part of the group that doesn't want illegal immigration", then, with all due respect, I'd have to say you couldn't prove it by me.
Maybe I'm missing something here...but if you care to re-visit my above post #752 (I finished it up AFTER you read it) there a some very sincere questions there, for you or ANYONE to address.
It ain't going to happen, Puert Rico will continue being a commonwealth of the US indefinetely. In fact Puerto Rico is the perfect example that Spanish culture thrives in the United States. In the decades that followed the occupation, the US attempted an all out attempt to change the language to english, but the Portorricans decided that english can be an excellent second language.
And PR is poorer than even our worst Southern state let alone Spain. Why is that?
I hate to belabor the point, but you really need to revisit the history of Germany and Europe prior to WWII. It was not the feat of a crazed few -- it was the prevailing thought of an entire society that Jews were not quite on par with 'real' Germans.
I've noticed how young people (dear god, did I just use that phrase? ) are so quick to throw the term 'Nazi' around, and yet they have absolutely no historical context of just what the hell it means. What are they 'teaching' in high school and college these days?!
I'm familiar enough with World War II-era history.
I made a distinction between the "attitude of people toward Jews" and the actual people who engaged in the genocide.
That "attitude" was what made it easier to look the other way, when the "crazed few" started doing the slaughtering. It's what made it possible for Germans to go about their lives without stopping to really think about the ashes raining down on their villages from a nearby concentration camp.
I'd hate for the intense anger some have for illegal aliens(and Hispanics by association) to be more widespread. There's some far out beliefs out there, directed toward, whether people want to admit it or not, HISPANIC illegal aliens. Some beliefs and feelings that aren't that different than what some felt toward Jews in those days. That's not exactly comparing the Holocaust itself to the issue of illegal immigration, but the mentalities of some.
I'm familiar enough with World War II-era history.
I made a distinction between the "attitude of people toward Jews" and the actual people who engaged in the genocide.
That "attitude" was what made it easier to look the other way, when the "crazed few" started doing the slaughtering. It's what made it possible for Germans to go about their lives without stopping to really think about the ashes raining down on their villages from a nearby concentration camp.
I'd hate for the intense anger some have for illegal aliens(and Hispanics by association) to be more widespread. There's some far out beliefs out there, directed toward, whether people want to admit it or not, HISPANIC illegal aliens. Some beliefs and feelings that aren't that different than what some felt toward Jews in those days. That's not exactly comparing the Holocaust itself to the issue of illegal immigration, but the mentalities of some.
All the more reason for American Hispanics to turn against the illegals who sully their reputation. Read that call ICE on them, refuse to have any dealings with, etc.
And PR is poorer than even our worst Southern state let alone Spain. Why is that?
I think that people like you would never understand, per capita income is just a figure, it does not encompass the whole reality, Puerto Rico's per capita income is roughly 60% that of the mainland, however people's expectation for happiness are not based solely on that figure, there is no, almost pathological worry about amasssing a lot of money for retirement, because families take care of their own, just like in spain.
Here in the mainland no one cares about their families or friends, everyone is left out there to fend for themselves, that's the reason there is such a huge number of homeless people, mostly anglos, since the mediterranean people are hispanic like in that sense. Year after year Portoricans from the Island are voted the happiest people on earth, there are many examples that I can bring to you, but I have no time for that, perhaps you can talk to one of your mysterious mestizo friends from SOB, that know a lot about all cultures.......
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) are so quick to throw the term 'Nazi' around, and yet they have absolutely no historical context of just what the hell it means. What are they 'teaching' in high school and college these days?!
