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Old 01-09-2011, 06:13 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
  1. BY insisting not using scriptures shows the basis of UR theology .... its all about your IMO outside of scriptures.
  2. Because your IMO has absolutly no bearing to God
  3. This attitude exemplifies why UR is not loving ... but accusatory.
    • Like most false theologies ... UR denies what sin makes a person ... a vile enemy of God. If a person rejects the solution, they will be treated as such. The human race put themself in that position, not God.
that was nice way of avoiding the questions.

 
Old 01-09-2011, 06:20 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,275 posts, read 20,017,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerdog View Post
Would be scared to say I don't take the Bible seriously, but that is just me. As it is our greatest history book ever written.
Why would it ?. I love the scriptures, but where does it say take the bible seriously. Where does it say there is no truth to be found outside the scriptures.
Do you understand there is just as much truth in a Lily in the field, as there is in the bible ?
 
Old 01-09-2011, 06:20 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I didn't answer it because only a lunitic would even consider killing his kids because he is afraid that they might not make the right decision.
but when the wrong descision means an eternity of torture for that kid,then any sane man would make the choice for them,which would end up them being in eternal happiness,,,,,,,what would you do let your kid ghrow old and have a choice to listen to someone like you speaking about God torturing people and supposingly accepting that as truth,or using all their wisdom and heart to beleive otherwise and face an eternity of torture.
 
Old 01-09-2011, 06:26 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerdog View Post
Would be scared to say I don't take the Bible seriously, but that is just me. As it is our greatest history book ever written.
yeah its probly more of a history book than a guide to spirituality.

if you were to take out all the history from it and were left with just the teachings of Jesus and His father,how much of a book would be left.

i love jesus' words and the acounts of his great charachter,another reason why i know God aint a torturer.
 
Old 01-09-2011, 07:02 PM
 
20,323 posts, read 15,678,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
but when the wrong descision means an eternity of torture for that kid,then any sane man would make the choice for them,which would end up them being in eternal happiness,,,,,,,what would you do let your kid ghrow old and have a choice to listen to someone like you speaking about God torturing people and supposingly accepting that as truth,or using all their wisdom and heart to beleive otherwise and face an eternity of torture.
First of all, I would never interfere with someones volition in the matter of salvation. Everyone is responsible to God to make their own decision. And I would certainly never murder a child for fear that he might not make the right decision. And neither would any other sane person.

Second, I don't talk about God torturing people. I relate what the word of God says about the fact that those who die without Christ will be eternally separated from God in the lake of fire. Yes, they will be tormented in hell. But no one knows the details of the nature of the place. Jesus did say that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. And He used Gehenna, the trashheap outside of Jerusalem in which the fire was always lit, to paint a picture of what is called in Revelation, the lake of fire. And He made it very clear that it is a place to be avoided. Those there will be in a state of utter ruin and eternal uselessness.

It is the universalists who talk in terms of 'God lighting up people like a torch,' and other such descriptions.

Listen. Reality is what it is. Your likes or your dislikes will not change that reality one single bit. The scriptures are clear on the matter concerning the fact that those who die without Christ are eternally lost. Now, people can stick their head under the bed and pretend that there is no eternal punishment for those who reject Christ, or people can believe what God has said in His written word. The lake of fire is not the invention of the church. It is not a mistaken concept based on mistranlations of the Bible. It is real. And all it takes to avoid going there is one decision to trust in Christ to save you.

I have spent enough time discussing this with you. Believe what you want.
 
Old 01-09-2011, 07:17 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,826,600 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
that was nice way of avoiding the questions.
That's because some people are afforded to be not so nice than others, if I had.... you wouldn't have read it any way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
1-in your poinion-eternal hell makes perfect sense,now tell me through your own reasoning,without using scripture how?

2- IYO eternal tormant is fair-how an why?

3-IYO eternal torment = justice, what crime fits that puinishment,??
if your answer is not beleiving in Jesus,then there are millions who have never even heard of jesus,so explain how God is so irresponsible as to put people in such a position.
The not so nice version...................
  1. There is only one God...one judge....and one standard for salvation.
  2. By through the voice of UR, Satan is accusing God of not being fair\just and now "irresponsible". Eternal torment is the perfect justice forSatan and those who reject God and his only standard.
  3. Like most false theologies ... UR denies what sin makes a person ... a vile enemy of God. If a person rejects the solution, they will be treated as such. The human race put themself in that position, not God.
The more accusations UR'ers make of God of not being fair\just and now "irresponsible" ......... the more happy Satan must be feeling.
 
Old 01-09-2011, 07:23 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
First of all, I would never interfere with someones volition in the matter of salvation. Everyone is responsible to God to make their own decision. And I would certainly never murder a child for fear that he might not make the right decision. And neither would any other sane person.

Second, I don't talk about God torturing people. I relate what the word of God says about the fact that those who die without Christ will be eternally separated from God in the lake of fire. Yes, they will be tormented in hell. But no one knows the details of the nature of the place. Jesus did say that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. And He used Gehenna, the trashheap outside of Jerusalem in which the fire was always lit, to paint a picture of what is called in Revelation, the lake of fire. And He made it very clear that it is a place to be avoided. Those there will be in a state of utter ruin and eternal uselessness.

It is the universalists who talk in terms of 'God lighting up people like a torch,' and other such descriptions.

Listen. Reality is what it is. Your likes or your dislikes will not change that reality one single bit. The scriptures are clear on the matter concerning the fact that those who die without Christ are eternally lost. Now, people can stick their head under the bed and pretend that there is no eternal punishment for those who reject Christ, or people can believe what God has said in His written word. The lake of fire is not the invention of the church. It is not a mistaken concept based on mistranlations of the Bible. It is real. And all it takes to avoid going there is one decision to trust in Christ to save you.

I have spent enough time discussing this with you. Believe what you want.
obviuosly you cant see the problem with it,of course no-one would murder their child,it goes to show you how much bull is in this doctrine,you dont need to say anymore,i made my mind up years ago and it really free'd my mind from alot of negativity,the negativity in it alone proves that its not of God,but something man made......reality is what it is....thank God for that!!!
 
Old 01-09-2011, 07:31 PM
 
37,587 posts, read 25,288,180 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The not so nice version...................
  1. There is only one God...one judge....and one standard for salvation.
  2. By through the voice of UR, Satan is accusing God of not being fair\just and now "irresponsible". Eternal torment is the perfect justice for Satan and those who reject God and his only standard.
  3. Like most false theologies ... UR denies what sin makes a person ... a vile enemy of God. If a person rejects the solution, they will be treated as such. The human race put themself in that position, not God.
The more accusations UR'ers make of God of not being fair\just and now "irresponsible" ......... the more happy Satan must be feeling.
Saints preserve us from the idiocracy of religious ignorance. I am unable to even imagine what kind of a soul can harbor such evil in their consciousness and believe it is good because they have been told it is from God!!! I can think of no greater proof of a satanic influence than having that become the preferred belief of the mainstream religion. Preserving the ancient ignorance and convincing people to retain that ignorance AS A SIGN of their faith . . . regardless of what sincere knowledge and questioning might reveal . . . is a stroke of satanic genius. There is no better way to preserve such idiocy than to revere and promote ignorance as a virtue.
 
Old 01-09-2011, 07:32 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,404 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
That's because some people are afforded to be not so nice than others, if I had.... you wouldn't have read it any way.





The not so nice version...................
  1. There is only one God...one judge....and one standard for salvation.
  2. By through the voice of UR, Satan is accusing God of not being fair\just and now "irresponsible". Eternal torment is the perfect justice forSatan and those who reject God and his only standard.
  3. Like most false theologies ... UR denies what sin makes a person ... a vile enemy of God. If a person rejects the solution, they will be treated as such. The human race put themself in that position, not God.
The more accusations UR'ers make of God of not being fair\just and now "irresponsible" ......... the more happy Satan must be feeling.
right comparing your argument and answers, which are just assumptions to those whyo have written some realy thoughtfull peices of reason,you loose bye a mile m8.

im not calling God irresponsible,unfair and unjust,im only puttin in perspective what you think God is.

lets face it He is responsible for life itself,and if he set it up in such a way that His own children,or any being ends up suffering forever then he has failed,,but guess what m8,in time all will return so He hasnt failed and hes not irresponsible and He is fair,because He gave us the law of karma(reap what you sow),so that good deeds,sincere ones,will be rewarded with good,and bad deeds will be rewarded with what is just,what you put out you get back in return,,,now if you want to know how this works and why people are suffering in this life then you'll have to look outside the bible.

common sense goes along way in defining good from evil.
 
Old 01-10-2011, 01:35 AM
 
10,191 posts, read 10,567,261 times
Reputation: 3020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Your personal sins were never held against you with regard to the issue of eternal condemnation and salvation. Your personal sins were instead, transferred to Jesus Christ on the cross and HE took the penalty for those sins.

For that reason, your personal sins are not an issue with regard to eternal salvation. Now, if you have been eternally saved through personal faith in Jesus Christ, you will be disciplined for your personal sins, but those sins were never the basis for the condemnation that came to you at the moment you were born.

Your personal sins as a believer are handled by the principle of 1 John 1:9. Because your personal sins as a believer were already judged at the cross, God forgives the sin when you simply name it to Him. 1 John 1:9 'If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
But then if I am following you correctly, once Jesus paid the penalty for my sins on Calvary, then no more debt is owing on my sins and therefore it would be double jeopardy for God to discipline me or punish me in this life for committing those sins. And I can tell you God has been good at giving a me a good walloping in the past when I got out of line---not so much any more as I learned my lesson and am a very good little boy now.
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